[EMS Discuss] New Linked Forums

Mr. Clif EMAIL HIDDEN
Thu Mar 8 09:07:18 PST 2012



Rick Osgood wrote:
> 1) Can we possibly disable the mailman archives?  Now that we have
> public forums that include mail archives, it seems like maybe it would
> be redundant to have mail archives too.  If we disable them or lock
> them, then we can remove the spam problem but they are still viewable
> from inside the forum where the email addresses have at least been
> obfuscated.  This seems like it could be a workable compromise.
>    
I don't really see a point in doing this, becuase the same content is in 
both the forums and the archives, and last night we agreed that the 
forums would remain open for all to read. The email addrsses are 
represented in almost exactly the same way in both. If you want to make 
our content accessible as in point (3) below then this is a way to do it 
and I am pro-accessibility also but we each have our own mediums we 
prefer. Again, any email address you have are out there, it's just a 
fact of life, and that's why we have spam filters.
> 2) I don't remember anyone at the board meeting saying that Nathan
> shouldn't have administrator access.  I remember you were worried
> about giving out administrator access because you didn't want other
> people changing things like spam filtering settings from what we all
> had agreed on at our meeting.  I remember we discussed that our agreed
> on spam rules would be communicated to Nathan so he would know what
> they are, in which case I personally don't think it should be a
> problem for him to have administrator access.  As long as the forum
> rules are communicated well, having multiple administrators should be
> a good thing.
>    
Here are my action items from last nights board meeting that you sent me:

Clif - Update policy document.
Clif - will double check posted minutes and email board with his findings
Clif - add people to email list and bring in a spiral notebook for guestbook.
Clif - reach out to Nathan about the forums and talk about our spam
policies and try to get moderators

If you read my message below carefully you will see I said "why don't we 
start with moderator for now, ok?" I am still working on the forum, and 
am not ready to have too many things change at once right now.
> 3) Just to re-iterate this whole Google statement is entirely Clif's
> own and not the opinion of EMS.  What follows is my personal opinion
> because we haven't discussed Google+ as a board.  I think if Nathan
> wants to create a G+ page for EMS then go for it.  I would say just
> try to use text from our website and Facebook page and not change it
> too much so our mission doesn't get misconstrued in the wording.  What
> we should really do is put together a press kit people can use for
> setting up these types of things.  Since we don't have one, I think
> taking text from our About page on the blog and from our Facebook page
> would be good.  Anything we can do to spread the word about EMS is a
> good thing in my opinion and if a member wants to take action to make
> it happen we definitely shouldn't be shooting them down and making
> them feel bad.
>
> Rick
>    
     Clif
> On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 10:01 PM, Mr. Clif<EMAIL HIDDEN>  wrote:
>    
>> Hi Nathan,
>>
>>
>> InEugene wrote:
>>      
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> - Just did a Google search on my other email address and the second result
>>> was http://eugenemakerspace.com/pipermail/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss even
>>> with the obfuscation. I'd prefer a system that stripped the email addresses
>>> altogether. Maybe that's too complicated. I'd think you could do a 'find
>>> words that contain "@" and replace with "..."' or something. Talking to Alex
>>> it sounds like changing the "@" to "at" would have little benefit.
>>>        
>> Yep, though changing the way mailman builds it's archives is more than I
>> want to get into. If you would like to put in a request with the mailman dev
>> team feel free. I would even add to that thread if you started it.
>>
>>      
>>> - Standard size for avatars on the other forums I've worked on is 100x100.
>>> If filesize is an issue we can always host them on imgur. Is filesize an
>>> issue?
>>>        
>> No, file size is not an issue I just need to know what a reasonable size
>> limit is, which is all I asked for.
>>
>>      
>>> - I still don't seem to have admin access. If you go into the
>>> Moderator/User Manager admin control panel you should be able to pull up my
>>> account and then under Forum Administrator you can click on the toggle link
>>> to assign administrative rights.
>>>        
>> Yes I know how to grant admin access, ;-) though why don't we start with
>> moderator for now, ok? Some of the other board members suggested that was a
>> good first step.
>>
>>      
>>> - Side note: Are we planning on having a Google+ presence? I know several
>>> of us are on there. I could set that up as well.
>>>
>>> /Nathan
>>>        
>> Not really, I think google is evil, and I would usually go out of my way to
>> be self sufficient. For someone so concerned about getting your email
>> address out there. You don't seem bothered by the fact that google doesn’t
>> delete your personal email after you delete it. Their policy says this. Then
>> they mine all the useful data out of it and sell it three letter agencies.
>> But they do it in a really nice way so it feels good, and I guess that's
>> what counts.
>>
>> The new big brother:
>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/new-privacy-policy-lets-google-watch-you--everywhere/2012/02/27/gIQAdyscpR_story.html
>>
>>     Clif
>>
>>
>>      
>>> On 3/7/2012 7:42 PM, Mr. Clif wrote:
>>>        
>>>> Hey Nathan,
>>>>
>>>> Yes I was going to mention that. The lost password procedure is a two
>>>> step process. When it takes you to the login page you need to wait for
>>>> the second email which has your account name and new password, and as
>>>> Nathan has noted it might end up in your spam folder.
>>>>
>>>> Nathan wrote:
>>>>          
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> Be aware, if you are using Gmail the reset password email may get
>>>>> stuck in your spam filter.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also I'm checking with a friend of mine who works in messaging to
>>>>> determine what level of obfuscation will be sufficient to avoid
>>>>> harvesting. I'm not sure if just turning the "@" symbols to "at" will
>>>>> do the trick as harvesters are pretty sophisticated. I don't follow
>>>>> the email threat landscape very closely but Alex should have a good
>>>>> idea what is required.
>>>>>            
>>>>
>>>> Excelent, I look forward to his insights. For comparisons sake this is
>>>> *All* that mailman does. You can check our archives here:
>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/pipermail/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss to
>>>> see. How many mailman installations are there? tens of thousands? 100s
>>>> of thousands? Anyway I agree, I think email obfuscation is mostly to
>>>> make users feel good, I don't think it's that practical. That is what
>>>> spam filters are for.
>>>>
>>>> Now, what I just wrote for the forums does more than this. It also
>>>> strips off the mailto: and<...>  around the addresses. Mailman doesn’t
>>>> bother with that.
>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe we'll need to increase the max avatar size as well. I'm
>>>>> guessing it's set to default now and it's crazy small.
>>>>>            
>>>>
>>>> Ok what size seems reasonable to you?
>>>>
>>>>          
>>>>> I did make FAKESPAMACCOUNT for testing, the posts were for testing as
>>>>> well.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Nathan
>>>>>            
>>>> Cool,
>>>>
>>>> So we talked about our mailing list and forum policy at the board
>>>> meeting tonight, and decided that we like it the way it is for now, but
>>>> will be happy to adjust things when we start to have problems. It was
>>>> noted that most forums do allow unmoderated signups. So I think that the
>>>> next thing we will have to tweak is to bump the number of initial
>>>> moderated posts up to 2 etc...
>>>>
>>>> Ciao,
>>>> Clif
>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/7/2012 6:02 PM, Rick Osgood wrote:
>>>>>            
>>>>>> I would personally prefer it if the new users were moderated rather
>>>>>> than posts. It pisses me off to not be able to post to a forum
>>>>>> multiple times. I understand the first time, but then again and
>>>>>> again? I think many would agree that it is frustrating.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, what about making Nathan an admin? I didn't see a response to
>>>>>> that. That would help get moderation done quickly and help get things
>>>>>> tweaked and working faster.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Mr. Clif<EMAIL HIDDEN>  wrote:
>>>>>>              
>>>>>>> Nathan,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> InEugene wrote:
>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think you will want to switch that. As it stands making an
>>>>>>>> account is
>>>>>>>> unlocked and anyone can do create one in 30 seconds and have
>>>>>>>> access...
>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes that is exactly the same as the mailing lists, and we haven't had
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> problem with them yet. In fact Rick decided that it was too hard to
>>>>>>> post to
>>>>>>> the board list so he opened it up to everyone.
>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ...to the but all posts are moderated. What you will want to do is
>>>>>>>> make it
>>>>>>>> so all new members have to be approved and posts are unmoderated,
>>>>>>>> otherwise
>>>>>>>> someone will have to constantly be moderating posts.
>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, perhaps that will become a problem someday, maybe even soon. At
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> time we can easily switch. The forum uses Captcha so at least bots
>>>>>>> can't
>>>>>>> easily register, and the first N posts of a new user are moderated.
>>>>>>> Right
>>>>>>> now N is one, so we will probably have to bump that up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I see someone made a FAKESPAMACCOUNT
>>>>>>> <http://forum.eugenemakerspace.com/index.php?t=usrinfo&id=26&>  was
>>>>>>> that you?
>>>>>>> unfortunately those posts are still in the moderation queue... and now
>>>>>>> they're gone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>> When can you obfuscate the email addresses? You might want to pull
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>> forums back down until that can be done.
>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Done.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ciao,
>>>>>>> Clif
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>> On 3/7/2012 4:10 PM, Mr. Clif wrote:
>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes anyone can read the forums, but only registered users can
>>>>>>>>> post, which
>>>>>>>>> is the same for the mailing lists.
>>>>>>>>> Only emails that came from quoted text in the lists are visible, but
>>>>>>>>> those can be obfuscated in the same way the forum archives are.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Clif
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You can
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm seeing a rather large problem with this. Correct me if I'm
>>>>>>>>>> wrong but
>>>>>>>>>> it looks like anyone can access these forums. It also looks like
>>>>>>>>>> everyone's
>>>>>>>>>> email address is visible here. I'm pretty sure this will result
>>>>>>>>>> in all of
>>>>>>>>>> our email addresses being harvested for spam and phishing attacks.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - Nathan
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/7/2012 8:53 AM, Clif Cox wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>                      
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, :)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You log in to the forum using the lost password procedure
>>>>>>>>>>> (just the first time) and navigate to the topic of interest.
>>>>>>>>>>> Then you select the "Subscribe to topic" link at the top of
>>>>>>>>>>> the page. You will probably also want to go to your member
>>>>>>>>>>> profile to fine tune some other settings.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You can also pull down new topics from a forum in an RSS
>>>>>>>>>>> feed, though I'm not sure you can just select messages in a
>>>>>>>>>>> topic, eg:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://forum.eugenemakerspace.com/feed.php?mode=t&l=1&n=10&frm=1&format=rss
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ciao!
>>>>>>>>>>> Clif
>>>>>>>>>>>                        
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                      
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>>>            
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>          
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Discuss mailing list
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>>>        
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>      




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