[EMS Discuss] The "official" forum is getting spammed

Rick Osgood EMAIL HIDDEN
Tue Mar 13 12:01:36 PDT 2012


It sounds like the main problem is that Clif setup a new forum to try
and solve the problem of having the mailing list / forums linked to
make everyone happy, but the people who want to use forums are not
happy with the new forums for various reasons.  But those people have
no power to fix any of the problems.  They can only complain to Clif
right now who either agrees with their complaint and tries to fix the
problem or he doesn't agree and argues why he isn't going to change
it.

Because Clif is the only administrator on the server right now, he has
full control over how the forums are run/look/act/feel.  We don't have
a good solution for people to be able to decide as a group how the
forums should be, so these one off complaints come to Clif and he is
making the decision himself since there isn't really a better way to
handle them yet. Clif is the admin so he is the only one who can/will
fix problems.

Can't we make another admin or two so they can resolve some of the
issues without having to complain to Clif and wait for him to have
time to get to it?  Maybe it would be better to have people admin the
forums who actually plan to use the forums so they can make make it as
user friendly as possible.

Is there another way we can sort of vote on these things so a majority
of the forum users are happy?  Can we have a poll in the forum so they
can vote on various features and then the forum is changed
accordingly?

Just some thoughts.

Rick

On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 11:45 AM, James Hukill <EMAIL HIDDEN> wrote:
> What group process?  You took it over, ignoring the work Nathan did,  and
> decided to build it yourself on your hardware.  Pot calling kettle.
>
> The culture of the EMS is that is a member see something absent they can
> take the initiative to solve it.  You hijacked Nathans work and decided to
> go rogue and do your own verson.  I don't like yours, and don't have to.
>
>
> --James
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Mr. Clif <EMAIL HIDDEN> wrote:
>>
>> I am unclear how any forum will automatically know how to tell a spammer
>> from an honest person. I believe it will always require human intervention.
>> Please prove me wrong. As I mentioned before you will have to chose weather
>> or not to decide based on the new account application or the first post. All
>> forums that I know of allow you to decide which you prefer. I'm not sure
>> where the band aid is here. It's not even a plugin. It's a click of a check
>> box.
>>
>> I feel that perhaps you are impatient with the group process that will
>> decide these things, and are trying to convince us that phpBB has this check
>> box and FUDforum doesn’t.
>>
>>    Clif
>>
>> James Hukill wrote:
>>>
>>> There is http://www.phpbb.com/ that does not have these spam/account
>>> problems.  Why band-aid a solution that does not work when there is one
>>> on
>>> the shelf that does work.
>>>
>>> In other words, consider this a motion to use PHPBB instead, as it's a
>>> know
>>> working solution.
>>>
>>> --James
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 10:45 AM, Mr. Clif<EMAIL HIDDEN>  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes we should talk about it, and I'm looking into some ideas.
>>>> I would like to note that it's not spam posting problem, and currently
>>>> you
>>>> can delete all the bogus accounts at once. I would also like it to work
>>>> kinda like Rick suggests, but I don't see how that could be completely
>>>> automated. It requires some manual intervention, and then a bit of a
>>>> delay.
>>>>
>>>> As I mentioned before you either moderate the account creation or the
>>>> first post(s). As Rick has hinted at, these things are always tradeoffs
>>>> between Usability and Security / Annoyance.
>>>>
>>>> To address Nathan's comment about the names, you don't have to create an
>>>> account to see those. They are visible to anyone browsing the forum, or
>>>> mailing list archives for that matter. I was able to change my name
>>>> without
>>>> duplicating my account, however you can merge accounts back together if
>>>> that happens. Also, It's not enabled by default but you can allow
>>>> aliases
>>>> for each user. Presumably, those would be displayed instead of the
>>>> names.
>>>>
>>>> It all boils down to personal choice and what you let other people know
>>>> about you.
>>>>
>>>>    Clif
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rick Osgood wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I want to see this discussion continue but I wonder if it would also
>>>>> be good to keep a list of the different ideas for fixing the spam
>>>>> problem and talk about them at the member meeting next Wednesday?
>>>>> That is assuming some agreed upon resolution is not found in these
>>>>> discussions.  It seems like altering the way spam is controlled would
>>>>> possibly affect all members who may want to use the forums so maybe we
>>>>> could present the ideas at the meeting and everyone could just vote on
>>>>> them. I just don't want to see this conversation just sort of die away
>>>>> and then nothing is really changed or fixed.  Talking about it at the
>>>>> meeting could be a good way to come up with an action to actually
>>>>> change/fix things.  Just an idea though, we don't have to do that
>>>>> either.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 9:42 AM, James Hukill<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I use message boards all day and IMHO, making new members or potential
>>>>>> new
>>>>>> members wait to post may chase them off.  On other boards I frequent
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> moderate we do not have a spam account problem.  We should move to
>>>>>> software
>>>>>> that does not have these issues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --James
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 9:34 AM, Rick
>>>>>> Osgood<EMAIL HIDDEN**com<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm mostly indifferent to all of this.  i haven't used forums much in
>>>>>>> the past, never mind moderating them so I really have no experience
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> this area.  That being said, I would just like to see it setup in
>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>> a way that members can sign up and start posting quickly without
>>>>>>> having to wait a long time for someone to approve their
>>>>>>> account/posts/whatever.  It's definitely frustrating to want to post
>>>>>>> something and have to just wait until some admin somewhere decides to
>>>>>>> check out your account and approve it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 7:40 AM, Ben Hallert<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I endorse this.  At even the most wildly enthusiastic predictions
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the future of the group, this would remain maintainable.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Ben
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 7:19 AM, Laura Harris<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Don't allow people to create their own accounts- end of problem.
>>>>>>>>> It's
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> lot
>>>>>>>>> easier for an admin to create an account than to maintain an
>>>>>>>>> ongoing
>>>>>>>>> routine
>>>>>>>>> of purging spammers and their spam.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**__
>>>>>>>>> From: Ellery Weber<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>>>> To: InEugene<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>>>> Cc:
>>>>>>>>> com.eugenemakerspace.discuss@**eugenemakerspace.com<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 10:40 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [EMS Discuss] The "official" forum is getting spammed
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> did asd123, achsoo, waligators2013 get verified as users?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --- Ellery Weber
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 10:15 PM, InEugene<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you look at the "homepages" they've set up. It's pretty obvious
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> spam accounts. There have been three additional accounts created
>>>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>> initial email. The captcha doesn't seem to be helping. Fully 1/3 of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> accounts are now fake spam accounts. When the spammer creates an
>>>>>>>>> account on
>>>>>>>>> that forum they also have access to our first and last names. Not
>>>>>>>>> critical
>>>>>>>>> but I tried to change the name on my account from Nathan Worth to
>>>>>>>>> NathanW
>>>>>>>>> and somehow I now have two accounts. I'm curious on how the
>>>>>>>>> spammers
>>>>>>>>> got to
>>>>>>>>> your forum so fast. I would assume mine would have been hit because
>>>>>>>>> they are
>>>>>>>>> hosted on a free forum site, but I've had no problems. Feel free to
>>>>>>>>> take a
>>>>>>>>> look, you'll have to create an account to do so though as I have
>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>> general discussion open to non-members and nothing open to guests.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.**freeforums.org/<http://eugenemakerspace.freeforums.org/>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -N
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/12/2012 6:43 PM, Mr. Clif wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's interesting, thanks for pointing that out Nathan. Yes those
>>>>>>>>> accounts did get created but I only see that
>>>>>>>>> asd123 tried to post anything, and that was caught in the
>>>>>>>>> moderation
>>>>>>>>> queue as it should be. I'm looking for the other's messages but it
>>>>>>>>> says
>>>>>>>>> zero.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As we discussed before we can adjust the number of messages someone
>>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>>> send that must be approved by the moderator. I'm not sure about
>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> wouldn't it be cool if that number of posts had to be actually
>>>>>>>>> approved
>>>>>>>>> before they could get out of the "moderation box". If true, then
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> spamers could only create accounts which will eventually be cleaned
>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>> like so much garbage. Additionally it's possible delete all of
>>>>>>>>> someones
>>>>>>>>> posts with their account but that may not even be necessary.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well as far as tradeoffs go, allowing genuine users easy account
>>>>>>>>> creation may be worth the trouble of deleting unused spam accounts
>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>> in awhile. There shouldn't be that many because there is a captcha
>>>>>>>>> test.
>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, there is a point of moderation either way. The
>>>>>>>>> Moderators either have to approve accounts or approve posts. I've
>>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>>> that asking them to fill out a form item like say "What are your
>>>>>>>>> interests" Doesn’t always work. eg, James didn't and I had to ask
>>>>>>>>> him
>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>> that account with a different email address was actually him.
>>>>>>>>> So....
>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>>> might be easier to just wait and see what their first post is.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Clif
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> InEugene wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Looks like spam 7 accounts were created. Only one new post by one
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> the spam accounts. 2 Friday, 2 Saturday, 1 Sunday, 2 today. Odd,
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> links they posted are mostly German. No spam on the "unofficial"
>>>>>>>>> forums I created. Neither accounts nor posts. Not sure why that is.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - Nathan
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/**mailman/listinfo/com.**
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> eugenemakerspace.discuss<http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/**mailman/listinfo/com.**
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> eugenemakerspace.discuss<http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/**mailman/listinfo/com.**
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> eugenemakerspace.discuss<http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/**mailman/listinfo/com.**
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> eugenemakerspace.discuss<http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/**mailman/listinfo/com.**
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> eugenemakerspace.discuss<http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/**mailman/listinfo/com.**
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> eugenemakerspace.discuss<http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
>>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/**mailman/listinfo/com.**
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> eugenemakerspace.discuss<http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> --James
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/**mailman/listinfo/com.**
>>>>>
>>>>> eugenemakerspace.discuss<http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> --James



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