[EMS Discuss] The "official" forum is getting spammed

Mr. Clif EMAIL HIDDEN
Tue Mar 13 12:28:04 PDT 2012


James,

Do you remember that Sunday when we talked about the idea of linked 
mailing lists and forums? I also talked to Rick and Nathan about it at 
the same time. You all thought it was a good idea, so I went a head and 
prototyped it. If you had all said no it sucked I wouldn't have bothered.

     Clif

James Hukill wrote:
> What group process?  You took it over, ignoring the work Nathan did,  and
> decided to build it yourself on your hardware.  Pot calling kettle.
>
> The culture of the EMS is that is a member see something absent they can
> take the initiative to solve it.  You hijacked Nathans work and decided to
> go rogue and do your own verson.  I don't like yours, and don't have to.
>
>
> --James
>
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Mr. Clif<EMAIL HIDDEN>  wrote:
>
>    
>> I am unclear how any forum will automatically know how to tell a spammer
>> from an honest person. I believe it will always require human intervention.
>> Please prove me wrong. As I mentioned before you will have to chose weather
>> or not to decide based on the new account application or the first post.
>> All forums that I know of allow you to decide which you prefer. I'm not
>> sure where the band aid is here. It's not even a plugin. It's a click of a
>> check box.
>>
>> I feel that perhaps you are impatient with the group process that will
>> decide these things, and are trying to convince us that phpBB has this
>> check box and FUDforum doesn’t.
>>
>>     Clif
>>
>> James Hukill wrote:
>>
>>      
>>> There is http://www.phpbb.com/ that does not have these spam/account
>>> problems.  Why band-aid a solution that does not work when there is one on
>>> the shelf that does work.
>>>
>>> In other words, consider this a motion to use PHPBB instead, as it's a
>>> know
>>> working solution.
>>>
>>> --James
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 10:45 AM, Mr. Clif<EMAIL HIDDEN>   wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>        
>>>> Yes we should talk about it, and I'm looking into some ideas.
>>>> I would like to note that it's not spam posting problem, and currently
>>>> you
>>>> can delete all the bogus accounts at once. I would also like it to work
>>>> kinda like Rick suggests, but I don't see how that could be completely
>>>> automated. It requires some manual intervention, and then a bit of a
>>>> delay.
>>>>
>>>> As I mentioned before you either moderate the account creation or the
>>>> first post(s). As Rick has hinted at, these things are always tradeoffs
>>>> between Usability and Security / Annoyance.
>>>>
>>>> To address Nathan's comment about the names, you don't have to create an
>>>> account to see those. They are visible to anyone browsing the forum, or
>>>> mailing list archives for that matter. I was able to change my name
>>>> without
>>>> duplicating my account, however you can merge accounts back together if
>>>> that happens. Also, It's not enabled by default but you can allow aliases
>>>> for each user. Presumably, those would be displayed instead of the names.
>>>>
>>>> It all boils down to personal choice and what you let other people know
>>>> about you.
>>>>
>>>>     Clif
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rick Osgood wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>          
>>>>> I want to see this discussion continue but I wonder if it would also
>>>>> be good to keep a list of the different ideas for fixing the spam
>>>>> problem and talk about them at the member meeting next Wednesday?
>>>>> That is assuming some agreed upon resolution is not found in these
>>>>> discussions.  It seems like altering the way spam is controlled would
>>>>> possibly affect all members who may want to use the forums so maybe we
>>>>> could present the ideas at the meeting and everyone could just vote on
>>>>> them. I just don't want to see this conversation just sort of die away
>>>>> and then nothing is really changed or fixed.  Talking about it at the
>>>>> meeting could be a good way to come up with an action to actually
>>>>> change/fix things.  Just an idea though, we don't have to do that
>>>>> either.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 9:42 AM, James Hukill<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>> I use message boards all day and IMHO, making new members or potential
>>>>>> new
>>>>>> members wait to post may chase them off.  On other boards I frequent
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> moderate we do not have a spam account problem.  We should move to
>>>>>> software
>>>>>> that does not have these issues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --James
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 9:34 AM, Rick Osgood<EMAIL HIDDEN***
>>>>>> *com<EMAIL HIDDEN**>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              
>>>>>>> I'm mostly indifferent to all of this.  i haven't used forums much in
>>>>>>> the past, never mind moderating them so I really have no experience in
>>>>>>> this area.  That being said, I would just like to see it setup in such
>>>>>>> a way that members can sign up and start posting quickly without
>>>>>>> having to wait a long time for someone to approve their
>>>>>>> account/posts/whatever.  It's definitely frustrating to want to post
>>>>>>> something and have to just wait until some admin somewhere decides to
>>>>>>> check out your account and approve it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 7:40 AM, Ben Hallert<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>> I endorse this.  At even the most wildly enthusiastic predictions for
>>>>>>>> the future of the group, this would remain maintainable.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Ben
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 7:19 AM, Laura Harris<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>> Don't allow people to create their own accounts- end of problem.
>>>>>>>>> It's
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> lot
>>>>>>>>> easier for an admin to create an account than to maintain an ongoing
>>>>>>>>> routine
>>>>>>>>> of purging spammers and their spam.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________****__
>>>>>>>>> From: Ellery Weber<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>>>> To: InEugene<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>>>> Cc: com.eugenemakerspace.discuss@****eugenemakerspace.com<com.**
>>>>>>>>> eugenemakerspace.discuss@**eugenemakerspace.com<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>                      
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 10:40 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [EMS Discuss] The "official" forum is getting spammed
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> did asd123, achsoo, waligators2013 get verified as users?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --- Ellery Weber
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 10:15 PM, InEugene<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you look at the "homepages" they've set up. It's pretty obvious
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> spam accounts. There have been three additional accounts created
>>>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>> initial email. The captcha doesn't seem to be helping. Fully 1/3 of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> accounts are now fake spam accounts. When the spammer creates an
>>>>>>>>> account on
>>>>>>>>> that forum they also have access to our first and last names. Not
>>>>>>>>> critical
>>>>>>>>> but I tried to change the name on my account from Nathan Worth to
>>>>>>>>> NathanW
>>>>>>>>> and somehow I now have two accounts. I'm curious on how the spammers
>>>>>>>>> got to
>>>>>>>>> your forum so fast. I would assume mine would have been hit because
>>>>>>>>> they are
>>>>>>>>> hosted on a free forum site, but I've had no problems. Feel free to
>>>>>>>>> take a
>>>>>>>>> look, you'll have to create an account to do so though as I have
>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>> general discussion open to non-members and nothing open to guests.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.**free**forums.org/<http://freeforums.org/>
>>>>>>>>> <http://**eugenemakerspace.freeforums.**org/<http://eugenemakerspace.freeforums.org/>
>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>                      
>>>>>>>>> -N
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/12/2012 6:43 PM, Mr. Clif wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's interesting, thanks for pointing that out Nathan. Yes those
>>>>>>>>> accounts did get created but I only see that
>>>>>>>>> asd123 tried to post anything, and that was caught in the moderation
>>>>>>>>> queue as it should be. I'm looking for the other's messages but it
>>>>>>>>> says
>>>>>>>>> zero.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As we discussed before we can adjust the number of messages someone
>>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>>> send that must be approved by the moderator. I'm not sure about this
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> wouldn't it be cool if that number of posts had to be actually
>>>>>>>>> approved
>>>>>>>>> before they could get out of the "moderation box". If true, then the
>>>>>>>>> spamers could only create accounts which will eventually be cleaned
>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>> like so much garbage. Additionally it's possible delete all of
>>>>>>>>> someones
>>>>>>>>> posts with their account but that may not even be necessary.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well as far as tradeoffs go, allowing genuine users easy account
>>>>>>>>> creation may be worth the trouble of deleting unused spam accounts
>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>> in awhile. There shouldn't be that many because there is a captcha
>>>>>>>>> test.
>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, there is a point of moderation either way. The
>>>>>>>>> Moderators either have to approve accounts or approve posts. I've
>>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>>> that asking them to fill out a form item like say "What are your
>>>>>>>>> interests" Doesn’t always work. eg, James didn't and I had to ask
>>>>>>>>> him
>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>> that account with a different email address was actually him. So....
>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>>> might be easier to just wait and see what their first post is.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Clif
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> InEugene wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Looks like spam 7 accounts were created. Only one new post by one of
>>>>>>>>> the spam accounts. 2 Friday, 2 Saturday, 1 Sunday, 2 today. Odd, the
>>>>>>>>> links they posted are mostly German. No spam on the "unofficial"
>>>>>>>>> forums I created. Neither accounts nor posts. Not sure why that is.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - Nathan
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________****_________________
>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/****mailman/listinfo/com.**<http://eugenemakerspace.com/**mailman/listinfo/com.**>
>>>>>>>>> eugenemakerspace.discuss<http:**//eugenemakerspace.com/**
>>>>>>>>> mailman/listinfo/com.**eugenemakerspace.discuss<http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss>
>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>                      
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________****_________________
>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/****mailman/listinfo/com.**<http://eugenemakerspace.com/**mailman/listinfo/com.**>
>>>>>>>>> eugenemakerspace.discuss<http:**//eugenemakerspace.com/**
>>>>>>>>> mailman/listinfo/com.**eugenemakerspace.discuss<http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss>
>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>                      
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________****_________________
>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/****mailman/listinfo/com.**<http://eugenemakerspace.com/**mailman/listinfo/com.**>
>>>>>>>>> eugenemakerspace.discuss<http:**//eugenemakerspace.com/**
>>>>>>>>> mailman/listinfo/com.**eugenemakerspace.discuss<http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss>
>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>                      
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________****_________________
>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/****mailman/listinfo/com.**<http://eugenemakerspace.com/**mailman/listinfo/com.**>
>>>>>>>>> eugenemakerspace.discuss<http:**//eugenemakerspace.com/**
>>>>>>>>> mailman/listinfo/com.**eugenemakerspace.discuss<http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss>
>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>                      
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________****_________________
>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/****mailman/listinfo/com.**<http://eugenemakerspace.com/**mailman/listinfo/com.**>
>>>>>>>>> eugenemakerspace.discuss<http:**//eugenemakerspace.com/**
>>>>>>>>> mailman/listinfo/com.**eugenemakerspace.discuss<http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss>
>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>                      
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>> ______________________________****_________________
>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/****mailman/listinfo/com.**<http://eugenemakerspace.com/**mailman/listinfo/com.**>
>>>>>>>> eugenemakerspace.discuss<http:**//eugenemakerspace.com/**
>>>>>>>> mailman/listinfo/com.**eugenemakerspace.discuss<http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss>
>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>> ______________________________****_________________
>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
>>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/****mailman/listinfo/com.**<http://eugenemakerspace.com/**mailman/listinfo/com.**>
>>>>>>> eugenemakerspace.discuss<http:**//eugenemakerspace.com/**
>>>>>>> mailman/listinfo/com.**eugenemakerspace.discuss<http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss>
>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> --James
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              
>>>>> ______________________________****_________________
>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
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>>>>> eugenemakerspace.discuss<http:**//eugenemakerspace.com/**
>>>>> mailman/listinfo/com.**eugenemakerspace.discuss<http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss>
>>>>>            
>>>>>>              
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>          
>>>
>>>
>>>        
>>
>>      
>
>    
>
>
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