[EMS Discuss] The "official" forum is getting spammed

Mr. Clif EMAIL HIDDEN
Tue Mar 13 12:53:12 PDT 2012


I would like to summarize what I've found out about how "spam" accounts 
are handled.

The bottom line is that they can't do anything until a moderator allows 
them to.

They can't see anything other than what a guest can see.

You won't even know they are there unless you click on members, and they 
will be all together with "0" by their number of posts. It would be more 
likely for you to click on a members name next to a post to learn more 
about them.

They can be deleted all at once whenever you get to it, and it's the 
same amount of admin work weither you chose  moderated account sign up 
or moderated posts.

If you set it up to approve the creation of a moderator account first 
then the only difference is you will see is this:

foobar                                       0 <- messages.

or

foobar (unconfirmed user)     0 <- messages.


THATS IT! that's all we are arguing about.

It sounds like just knowing that at any given time there are a few 
spammers wanting accounts is offensive to people. These are not bots 
signing up because we have captcha, they are real people, and they will 
eventually get tired of waisting their time signing up over and over 
again. On the wiki, I get maybe one spam sign up a quarter if that. 
Though initially I got a lot more. Now there *Could* be one or two 
spammers that enjoy signing up over and over just to be annoying. There 
is always that possibility.

So, I'm not sure what we are arguing about there will be a few unaproved 
accounts at any time and they will be visible in the member list if you 
happen to go looking for them.

I'm sure there are other aspects of the forums that are more worth our 
time to discuss. Why don't we tackle those topics?

     Clif

Mr. Clif wrote:
> James,
>
> Do you remember that Sunday when we talked about the idea of linked 
> mailing lists and forums? I also talked to Rick and Nathan about it at 
> the same time. You all thought it was a good idea, so I went a head 
> and prototyped it. If you had all said no it sucked I wouldn't have 
> bothered.
>
>     Clif
>
> James Hukill wrote:
>> What group process?  You took it over, ignoring the work Nathan did,  
>> and
>> decided to build it yourself on your hardware.  Pot calling kettle.
>>
>> The culture of the EMS is that is a member see something absent they can
>> take the initiative to solve it.  You hijacked Nathans work and 
>> decided to
>> go rogue and do your own verson.  I don't like yours, and don't have to.
>>
>>
>> --James
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Mr. Clif<EMAIL HIDDEN>  wrote:
>>
>>> I am unclear how any forum will automatically know how to tell a 
>>> spammer
>>> from an honest person. I believe it will always require human 
>>> intervention.
>>> Please prove me wrong. As I mentioned before you will have to chose 
>>> weather
>>> or not to decide based on the new account application or the first 
>>> post.
>>> All forums that I know of allow you to decide which you prefer. I'm not
>>> sure where the band aid is here. It's not even a plugin. It's a 
>>> click of a
>>> check box.
>>>
>>> I feel that perhaps you are impatient with the group process that will
>>> decide these things, and are trying to convince us that phpBB has this
>>> check box and FUDforum doesn’t.
>>>
>>>     Clif
>>>
>>> James Hukill wrote:
>>>
>>>> There is http://www.phpbb.com/ that does not have these spam/account
>>>> problems.  Why band-aid a solution that does not work when there is 
>>>> one on
>>>> the shelf that does work.
>>>>
>>>> In other words, consider this a motion to use PHPBB instead, as it's a
>>>> know
>>>> working solution.
>>>>
>>>> --James
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 10:45 AM, Mr. Clif<EMAIL HIDDEN>   
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Yes we should talk about it, and I'm looking into some ideas.
>>>>> I would like to note that it's not spam posting problem, and 
>>>>> currently
>>>>> you
>>>>> can delete all the bogus accounts at once. I would also like it to 
>>>>> work
>>>>> kinda like Rick suggests, but I don't see how that could be 
>>>>> completely
>>>>> automated. It requires some manual intervention, and then a bit of a
>>>>> delay.
>>>>>
>>>>> As I mentioned before you either moderate the account creation or the
>>>>> first post(s). As Rick has hinted at, these things are always 
>>>>> tradeoffs
>>>>> between Usability and Security / Annoyance.
>>>>>
>>>>> To address Nathan's comment about the names, you don't have to 
>>>>> create an
>>>>> account to see those. They are visible to anyone browsing the 
>>>>> forum, or
>>>>> mailing list archives for that matter. I was able to change my name
>>>>> without
>>>>> duplicating my account, however you can merge accounts back 
>>>>> together if
>>>>> that happens. Also, It's not enabled by default but you can allow 
>>>>> aliases
>>>>> for each user. Presumably, those would be displayed instead of the 
>>>>> names.
>>>>>
>>>>> It all boils down to personal choice and what you let other people 
>>>>> know
>>>>> about you.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Clif
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rick Osgood wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I want to see this discussion continue but I wonder if it would also
>>>>>> be good to keep a list of the different ideas for fixing the spam
>>>>>> problem and talk about them at the member meeting next Wednesday?
>>>>>> That is assuming some agreed upon resolution is not found in these
>>>>>> discussions.  It seems like altering the way spam is controlled 
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> possibly affect all members who may want to use the forums so 
>>>>>> maybe we
>>>>>> could present the ideas at the meeting and everyone could just 
>>>>>> vote on
>>>>>> them. I just don't want to see this conversation just sort of die 
>>>>>> away
>>>>>> and then nothing is really changed or fixed.  Talking about it at 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> meeting could be a good way to come up with an action to actually
>>>>>> change/fix things.  Just an idea though, we don't have to do that
>>>>>> either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 9:42 AM, James Hukill<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I use message boards all day and IMHO, making new members or 
>>>>>>> potential
>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>> members wait to post may chase them off.  On other boards I 
>>>>>>> frequent
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> moderate we do not have a spam account problem.  We should move to
>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>> that does not have these issues.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --James
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 9:34 AM, Rick 
>>>>>>> Osgood<EMAIL HIDDEN***
>>>>>>> *com<EMAIL HIDDEN**>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm mostly indifferent to all of this.  i haven't used forums 
>>>>>>>> much in
>>>>>>>> the past, never mind moderating them so I really have no 
>>>>>>>> experience in
>>>>>>>> this area.  That being said, I would just like to see it setup 
>>>>>>>> in such
>>>>>>>> a way that members can sign up and start posting quickly without
>>>>>>>> having to wait a long time for someone to approve their
>>>>>>>> account/posts/whatever.  It's definitely frustrating to want to 
>>>>>>>> post
>>>>>>>> something and have to just wait until some admin somewhere 
>>>>>>>> decides to
>>>>>>>> check out your account and approve it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 7:40 AM, Ben Hallert<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I endorse this.  At even the most wildly enthusiastic 
>>>>>>>>> predictions for
>>>>>>>>> the future of the group, this would remain maintainable.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - Ben
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 7:19 AM, Laura Harris<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Don't allow people to create their own accounts- end of problem.
>>>>>>>>>> It's
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> lot
>>>>>>>>>> easier for an admin to create an account than to maintain an 
>>>>>>>>>> ongoing
>>>>>>>>>> routine
>>>>>>>>>> of purging spammers and their spam.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________****__
>>>>>>>>>> From: Ellery Weber<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>>>>> To: InEugene<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>>>>> Cc: com.eugenemakerspace.discuss@****eugenemakerspace.com<com.**
>>>>>>>>>> eugenemakerspace.discuss@**eugenemakerspace.com<EMAIL HIDDEN> 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 10:40 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [EMS Discuss] The "official" forum is getting 
>>>>>>>>>> spammed
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> did asd123, achsoo, waligators2013 get verified as users?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --- Ellery Weber
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 10:15 PM, InEugene<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you look at the "homepages" they've set up. It's pretty 
>>>>>>>>>> obvious
>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> spam accounts. There have been three additional accounts created
>>>>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>> initial email. The captcha doesn't seem to be helping. Fully 
>>>>>>>>>> 1/3 of
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> accounts are now fake spam accounts. When the spammer creates an
>>>>>>>>>> account on
>>>>>>>>>> that forum they also have access to our first and last names. 
>>>>>>>>>> Not
>>>>>>>>>> critical
>>>>>>>>>> but I tried to change the name on my account from Nathan 
>>>>>>>>>> Worth to
>>>>>>>>>> NathanW
>>>>>>>>>> and somehow I now have two accounts. I'm curious on how the 
>>>>>>>>>> spammers
>>>>>>>>>> got to
>>>>>>>>>> your forum so fast. I would assume mine would have been hit 
>>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>>> they are
>>>>>>>>>> hosted on a free forum site, but I've had no problems. Feel 
>>>>>>>>>> free to
>>>>>>>>>> take a
>>>>>>>>>> look, you'll have to create an account to do so though as I have
>>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>> general discussion open to non-members and nothing open to 
>>>>>>>>>> guests.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.**free**forums.org/<http://freeforums.org/> 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <http://**eugenemakerspace.freeforums.**org/<http://eugenemakerspace.freeforums.org/> 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -N
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/12/2012 6:43 PM, Mr. Clif wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That's interesting, thanks for pointing that out Nathan. Yes 
>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>> accounts did get created but I only see that
>>>>>>>>>> asd123 tried to post anything, and that was caught in the 
>>>>>>>>>> moderation
>>>>>>>>>> queue as it should be. I'm looking for the other's messages 
>>>>>>>>>> but it
>>>>>>>>>> says
>>>>>>>>>> zero.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As we discussed before we can adjust the number of messages 
>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>>>> send that must be approved by the moderator. I'm not sure 
>>>>>>>>>> about this
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't it be cool if that number of posts had to be actually
>>>>>>>>>> approved
>>>>>>>>>> before they could get out of the "moderation box". If true, 
>>>>>>>>>> then the
>>>>>>>>>> spamers could only create accounts which will eventually be 
>>>>>>>>>> cleaned
>>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>> like so much garbage. Additionally it's possible delete all of
>>>>>>>>>> someones
>>>>>>>>>> posts with their account but that may not even be necessary.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Well as far as tradeoffs go, allowing genuine users easy account
>>>>>>>>>> creation may be worth the trouble of deleting unused spam 
>>>>>>>>>> accounts
>>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>>> in awhile. There shouldn't be that many because there is a 
>>>>>>>>>> captcha
>>>>>>>>>> test.
>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, there is a point of moderation either way. 
>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>> Moderators either have to approve accounts or approve posts. 
>>>>>>>>>> I've
>>>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>>>> that asking them to fill out a form item like say "What are your
>>>>>>>>>> interests" Doesn’t always work. eg, James didn't and I had to 
>>>>>>>>>> ask
>>>>>>>>>> him
>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>> that account with a different email address was actually him. 
>>>>>>>>>> So....
>>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>>>> might be easier to just wait and see what their first post is.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Clif
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> InEugene wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Looks like spam 7 accounts were created. Only one new post by 
>>>>>>>>>> one of
>>>>>>>>>> the spam accounts. 2 Friday, 2 Saturday, 1 Sunday, 2 today. 
>>>>>>>>>> Odd, the
>>>>>>>>>> links they posted are mostly German. No spam on the "unofficial"
>>>>>>>>>> forums I created. Neither accounts nor posts. Not sure why 
>>>>>>>>>> that is.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - Nathan
>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________****_________________
>>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/****mailman/listinfo/com.**<http://eugenemakerspace.com/**mailman/listinfo/com.**> 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> eugenemakerspace.discuss<http:**//eugenemakerspace.com/**
>>>>>>>>>> mailman/listinfo/com.**eugenemakerspace.discuss<http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss> 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________****_________________
>>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/****mailman/listinfo/com.**<http://eugenemakerspace.com/**mailman/listinfo/com.**> 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> eugenemakerspace.discuss<http:**//eugenemakerspace.com/**
>>>>>>>>>> mailman/listinfo/com.**eugenemakerspace.discuss<http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss> 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________****_________________
>>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/****mailman/listinfo/com.**<http://eugenemakerspace.com/**mailman/listinfo/com.**> 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> eugenemakerspace.discuss<http:**//eugenemakerspace.com/**
>>>>>>>>>> mailman/listinfo/com.**eugenemakerspace.discuss<http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss> 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________****_________________
>>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/****mailman/listinfo/com.**<http://eugenemakerspace.com/**mailman/listinfo/com.**> 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> eugenemakerspace.discuss<http:**//eugenemakerspace.com/**
>>>>>>>>>> mailman/listinfo/com.**eugenemakerspace.discuss<http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss> 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________****_________________
>>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/****mailman/listinfo/com.**<http://eugenemakerspace.com/**mailman/listinfo/com.**> 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> eugenemakerspace.discuss<http:**//eugenemakerspace.com/**
>>>>>>>>>> mailman/listinfo/com.**eugenemakerspace.discuss<http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss> 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________****_________________
>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/****mailman/listinfo/com.**<http://eugenemakerspace.com/**mailman/listinfo/com.**> 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> eugenemakerspace.discuss<http:**//eugenemakerspace.com/**
>>>>>>>>> mailman/listinfo/com.**eugenemakerspace.discuss<http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss> 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________****_________________
>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
>>>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/****mailman/listinfo/com.**<http://eugenemakerspace.com/**mailman/listinfo/com.**> 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> eugenemakerspace.discuss<http:**//eugenemakerspace.com/**
>>>>>>>> mailman/listinfo/com.**eugenemakerspace.discuss<http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss> 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> --James
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________****_________________
>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/****mailman/listinfo/com.**<http://eugenemakerspace.com/**mailman/listinfo/com.**> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> eugenemakerspace.discuss<http:**//eugenemakerspace.com/**
>>>>>> mailman/listinfo/com.**eugenemakerspace.discuss<http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> EMAIL HIDDEN
>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss 
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> EMAIL HIDDEN
> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss




More information about the Discuss mailing list