[EMS Discuss] The "official" forum is getting spammed

James Hukill EMAIL HIDDEN
Tue Mar 13 13:31:44 PDT 2012


2nd this. 

--James


On Mar 13, 2012, at 1:29 PM, In Eugene <EMAIL HIDDEN> wrote:

> That's not accurate at all. You asked if I thought linking the email
> distro list would be a good idea. I agreed that if it could be done
> that would be great. Then what you did was make a new forum without
> getting buy-in from anyone and then locked everyone out of it and
> you've been running it like a dictator ever since. All suggestions and
> recommendations have been totally ignored because "Clif knows better".
> Almost nothing has changed on that forum since you created it. Don't
> give me this "Prototype" bullshit. You put it in production and
> essentially told the rest of the group that this was the way it was
> going to be.
> 
> -N
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 12:28 PM, Mr. Clif <EMAIL HIDDEN> wrote:
>> James,
>> 
>> Do you remember that Sunday when we talked about the idea of linked mailing
>> lists and forums? I also talked to Rick and Nathan about it at the same
>> time. You all thought it was a good idea, so I went a head and prototyped
>> it. If you had all said no it sucked I wouldn't have bothered.
>> 
>>    Clif
>> 
>> James Hukill wrote:
>>> 
>>> What group process?  You took it over, ignoring the work Nathan did,  and
>>> decided to build it yourself on your hardware.  Pot calling kettle.
>>> 
>>> The culture of the EMS is that is a member see something absent they can
>>> take the initiative to solve it.  You hijacked Nathans work and decided to
>>> go rogue and do your own verson.  I don't like yours, and don't have to.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --James
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Mr. Clif<EMAIL HIDDEN>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I am unclear how any forum will automatically know how to tell a spammer
>>>> from an honest person. I believe it will always require human
>>>> intervention.
>>>> Please prove me wrong. As I mentioned before you will have to chose
>>>> weather
>>>> or not to decide based on the new account application or the first post.
>>>> All forums that I know of allow you to decide which you prefer. I'm not
>>>> sure where the band aid is here. It's not even a plugin. It's a click of
>>>> a
>>>> check box.
>>>> 
>>>> I feel that perhaps you are impatient with the group process that will
>>>> decide these things, and are trying to convince us that phpBB has this
>>>> check box and FUDforum doesn’t.
>>>> 
>>>>    Clif
>>>> 
>>>> James Hukill wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> There is http://www.phpbb.com/ that does not have these spam/account
>>>>> problems.  Why band-aid a solution that does not work when there is one
>>>>> on
>>>>> the shelf that does work.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In other words, consider this a motion to use PHPBB instead, as it's a
>>>>> know
>>>>> working solution.
>>>>> 
>>>>> --James
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 10:45 AM, Mr. Clif<EMAIL HIDDEN>   wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yes we should talk about it, and I'm looking into some ideas.
>>>>>> I would like to note that it's not spam posting problem, and currently
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> can delete all the bogus accounts at once. I would also like it to work
>>>>>> kinda like Rick suggests, but I don't see how that could be completely
>>>>>> automated. It requires some manual intervention, and then a bit of a
>>>>>> delay.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> As I mentioned before you either moderate the account creation or the
>>>>>> first post(s). As Rick has hinted at, these things are always tradeoffs
>>>>>> between Usability and Security / Annoyance.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> To address Nathan's comment about the names, you don't have to create
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> account to see those. They are visible to anyone browsing the forum, or
>>>>>> mailing list archives for that matter. I was able to change my name
>>>>>> without
>>>>>> duplicating my account, however you can merge accounts back together if
>>>>>> that happens. Also, It's not enabled by default but you can allow
>>>>>> aliases
>>>>>> for each user. Presumably, those would be displayed instead of the
>>>>>> names.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It all boils down to personal choice and what you let other people know
>>>>>> about you.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>    Clif
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Rick Osgood wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I want to see this discussion continue but I wonder if it would also
>>>>>>> be good to keep a list of the different ideas for fixing the spam
>>>>>>> problem and talk about them at the member meeting next Wednesday?
>>>>>>> That is assuming some agreed upon resolution is not found in these
>>>>>>> discussions.  It seems like altering the way spam is controlled would
>>>>>>> possibly affect all members who may want to use the forums so maybe we
>>>>>>> could present the ideas at the meeting and everyone could just vote on
>>>>>>> them. I just don't want to see this conversation just sort of die away
>>>>>>> and then nothing is really changed or fixed.  Talking about it at the
>>>>>>> meeting could be a good way to come up with an action to actually
>>>>>>> change/fix things.  Just an idea though, we don't have to do that
>>>>>>> either.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 9:42 AM, James Hukill<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I use message boards all day and IMHO, making new members or
>>>>>>>> potential
>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>> members wait to post may chase them off.  On other boards I frequent
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> moderate we do not have a spam account problem.  We should move to
>>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>>> that does not have these issues.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --James
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 9:34 AM, Rick
>>>>>>>> Osgood<EMAIL HIDDEN***
>>>>>>>> *com<EMAIL HIDDEN**>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I'm mostly indifferent to all of this.  i haven't used forums much
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> the past, never mind moderating them so I really have no experience
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> this area.  That being said, I would just like to see it setup in
>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>> a way that members can sign up and start posting quickly without
>>>>>>>>> having to wait a long time for someone to approve their
>>>>>>>>> account/posts/whatever.  It's definitely frustrating to want to post
>>>>>>>>> something and have to just wait until some admin somewhere decides
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> check out your account and approve it.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 7:40 AM, Ben Hallert<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I endorse this.  At even the most wildly enthusiastic predictions
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> the future of the group, this would remain maintainable.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> - Ben
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 7:19 AM, Laura Harris<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Don't allow people to create their own accounts- end of problem.
>>>>>>>>>>> It's
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> lot
>>>>>>>>>>> easier for an admin to create an account than to maintain an
>>>>>>>>>>> ongoing
>>>>>>>>>>> routine
>>>>>>>>>>> of purging spammers and their spam.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________****__
>>>>>>>>>>> From: Ellery Weber<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: InEugene<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: com.eugenemakerspace.discuss@****eugenemakerspace.com<com.**
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> eugenemakerspace.discuss@**eugenemakerspace.com<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 10:40 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [EMS Discuss] The "official" forum is getting spammed
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> did asd123, achsoo, waligators2013 get verified as users?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> --- Ellery Weber
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 10:15 PM, InEugene<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> If you look at the "homepages" they've set up. It's pretty obvious
>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> spam accounts. There have been three additional accounts created
>>>>>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>> initial email. The captcha doesn't seem to be helping. Fully 1/3
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> accounts are now fake spam accounts. When the spammer creates an
>>>>>>>>>>> account on
>>>>>>>>>>> that forum they also have access to our first and last names. Not
>>>>>>>>>>> critical
>>>>>>>>>>> but I tried to change the name on my account from Nathan Worth to
>>>>>>>>>>> NathanW
>>>>>>>>>>> and somehow I now have two accounts. I'm curious on how the
>>>>>>>>>>> spammers
>>>>>>>>>>> got to
>>>>>>>>>>> your forum so fast. I would assume mine would have been hit
>>>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>>>> they are
>>>>>>>>>>> hosted on a free forum site, but I've had no problems. Feel free
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> take a
>>>>>>>>>>> look, you'll have to create an account to do so though as I have
>>>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>>> general discussion open to non-members and nothing open to guests.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.**free**forums.org/<http://freeforums.org/>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <http://**eugenemakerspace.freeforums.**org/<http://eugenemakerspace.freeforums.org/>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> -N
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/12/2012 6:43 PM, Mr. Clif wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> That's interesting, thanks for pointing that out Nathan. Yes those
>>>>>>>>>>> accounts did get created but I only see that
>>>>>>>>>>> asd123 tried to post anything, and that was caught in the
>>>>>>>>>>> moderation
>>>>>>>>>>> queue as it should be. I'm looking for the other's messages but it
>>>>>>>>>>> says
>>>>>>>>>>> zero.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> As we discussed before we can adjust the number of messages
>>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>>>>> send that must be approved by the moderator. I'm not sure about
>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't it be cool if that number of posts had to be actually
>>>>>>>>>>> approved
>>>>>>>>>>> before they could get out of the "moderation box". If true, then
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> spamers could only create accounts which will eventually be
>>>>>>>>>>> cleaned
>>>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>>> like so much garbage. Additionally it's possible delete all of
>>>>>>>>>>> someones
>>>>>>>>>>> posts with their account but that may not even be necessary.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Well as far as tradeoffs go, allowing genuine users easy account
>>>>>>>>>>> creation may be worth the trouble of deleting unused spam accounts
>>>>>>>>>>> once
>>>>>>>>>>> in awhile. There shouldn't be that many because there is a captcha
>>>>>>>>>>> test.
>>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, there is a point of moderation either way. The
>>>>>>>>>>> Moderators either have to approve accounts or approve posts. I've
>>>>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>>>>> that asking them to fill out a form item like say "What are your
>>>>>>>>>>> interests" Doesn’t always work. eg, James didn't and I had to ask
>>>>>>>>>>> him
>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>> that account with a different email address was actually him.
>>>>>>>>>>> So....
>>>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>>>>> might be easier to just wait and see what their first post is.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Clif
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> InEugene wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Looks like spam 7 accounts were created. Only one new post by one
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> the spam accounts. 2 Friday, 2 Saturday, 1 Sunday, 2 today. Odd,
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> links they posted are mostly German. No spam on the "unofficial"
>>>>>>>>>>> forums I created. Neither accounts nor posts. Not sure why that
>>>>>>>>>>> is.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> - Nathan
>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________****_________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>>>> mailman/listinfo/com.**eugenemakerspace.discuss<http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________****_________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________****_________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________****_________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________****_________________
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>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________****_________________
>>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/****mailman/listinfo/com.**<http://eugenemakerspace.com/**mailman/listinfo/com.**>
>>>>>>>>>> eugenemakerspace.discuss<http:**//eugenemakerspace.com/**
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> mailman/listinfo/com.**eugenemakerspace.discuss<http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss>
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________****_________________
>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
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>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> --James
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ______________________________****_________________
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>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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