[EMS Discuss] New Linked Forums

InEugene EMAIL HIDDEN
Thu Mar 15 15:09:44 PDT 2012


I was under the impression that this was also going to be addressed at 
the open member meeting.

-Nathan

On 3/15/2012 2:18 PM, Mr. Clif wrote:
> Yes, I like that as well Ben, and there are about a dozen check boxes 
> to detail your privacy settings, and more than 20 profile settings 
> overall on the current forum.
>
>     Clif
>
> Ben Hallert - Vipmail wrote:
>> Personally, I like the idea of openly viewable forums (like phpbb) 
>> with handles so the amount of exposed private info is controllable by 
>> each individual.  I hope this option is considered as well.
>>
>> - Ben
>>
>> On Mar 15, 2012, at 1:42 PM, "Mr. Clif"<EMAIL HIDDEN>  wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Gang,
>>>
>>> Rick Osgood wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>> Is there another way we can sort of vote on these things so a majority
>>>> of the forum users are happy?  Can we have a poll in the forum so they
>>>> can vote on various features and then the forum is changed
>>>> accordingly?
>>>>
>>>> Just some thoughts.
>>>>
>>>> Rick
>>> I feel like discussion has stalled on this. I hope you don't think 
>>> I'm bad because I also want to take a straw poll before taking 
>>> action, and I considered Rick's suggestion of doing it in the forum, 
>>> though more people are on this list...
>>>
>>> Mr. Clif wrote:
>>>> Good thoughts Rick,
>>> [...]
>>>> If we set up new admins. Do they then get total say on which way to 
>>>> go? I don't see how that changes anything, but if you think thats 
>>>> best,  I will be happy to make new admins.
>>>>
>>>> Clif
>>> It seems like we have a lot of suggestions, and several people able 
>>> to take action but not a clear direction yet. Here is an example, 
>>> Rick also suggested that we take the mail archives offline for now, 
>>> and he and Ellery can do that if they want. Though apparently no one 
>>> felt like that was the course to take yet so again no action was taken.
>>>
>>> I have been consistantly pushing for a good process not tied to any 
>>> outcome. Like Rick says "so a majority
>>> of the forum users are happy" is absolutely my goal. the only thing 
>>> blocking us is the lack of discussion. Please don't think I am 
>>> asking so I can run things. Our goal from the start was to turn it 
>>> over to some other admins. I feel strongly that we should somewhat 
>>> agree on what direction to take it first that's all. Do you think 
>>> I'm being too difficult?
>>>
>>> Here is what I know about peoples probable answers to my questions 
>>> below:
>>>
>>> Nathan:    seems to prefer closed forums, and suggested that the 
>>> archives have all addresses redacted.
>>> Rick:         suggested that the archives be taken offline at least 
>>> for now.
>>> Ellery:      Didn't like the addresses in the forums but it wasn't 
>>> clear if that was before or after they were
>>>                  obscured. I sent him some material to help him get 
>>> caught up, and hoped for a suggestion.
>>>
>>>     Sorry I feel I should remember a few more opinions, please 
>>> repost here so we can have a good group process.
>>>
>>>     Thanks, :-)
>>>     Clif
>>>
>>>
>>> Mr. Clif wrote:
>>>> Dear EMS members,
>>>>
>>>> I felt that part of the lively discussion we had the other day was 
>>>> productive, even though there was a flame out at the end. I'm 
>>>> referring to the part where a lot of people chimed in with their 
>>>> opinion on how the user registration should be handled. I was very 
>>>> happy to see that many people following the debate and contributing 
>>>> their ideas. Maybe we could try that again with a different 
>>>> question. Strange as it may seem I have asked different versions of 
>>>> this question to the board and a few members but haven’t gotten a 
>>>> good sense of the collective will of the people or even the board! 
>>>> Which is really frustrating for me, because I feel strongly that 
>>>> just two or three people shouldn't decide something that affects 
>>>> all the members and how the organization is perceived from the 
>>>> outside, on their own. It's a hard question partly because it's 
>>>> about philosophy and tradeoffs.
>>>>
>>>> Here it is in a nut shell:
>>>>
>>>> We are currently a small but growing group of people who like to 
>>>> share our ideas and projects, and one of the ways we do this is on 
>>>> this email list. There are others who prefer forums to emails, and 
>>>> some who like news groups or RSS feeds. If we link all these things 
>>>> together everyone can participate in these discussions using their 
>>>> favorite format.
>>>>
>>>> I feel that EMS as an org tries to be as open with it's information 
>>>> as possible and make it easy to find out about us and to interact. 
>>>> That is the philosophy as I see it. So up till now our mailing list 
>>>> archives and our prototype forums have been open and readable by 
>>>> all, including search engines. So for example if someone is looking 
>>>> for a Rubins tube project they will see Rick talking about it in 
>>>> the archives or forums.
>>>>
>>>> The trade off is that there are some email addresses in the quoted 
>>>> messages in our posts that will show up in both places, and there 
>>>> is a minimal amount of obscuration done to them by both packages. 
>>>> There is some small amount of coding and maintenance required to do 
>>>> more than that.
>>>>
>>>> So the question is; should we continue our philosophy of openness, 
>>>> or close our archives, and forums?
>>>>
>>>> If we keep them open then how should we handle the email addresses?
>>>>
>>>> Leave them as they are, "joe at foo.bar.com" and let our personal 
>>>> spam filters deal with the few extra spams picked up? The archives 
>>>> have been around since October, has anyone noticed a change?
>>>>
>>>> Or one of these options:
>>>>
>>>>     "joe at foo dot bar dot com"
>>>>     "joe at spam-protected"
>>>>     removed completely
>>>>
>>>> or something I didn't think of?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your input it helps a lot.
>>>>
>>>>     Clif
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ellery Weber wrote:
>>>>> I'm kinda late to this discussion, but I would also really prefer 
>>>>> that our
>>>>> email address not be on the forums...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --- Ellery Weber
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Bob Miller<EMAIL HIDDEN>   
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I created a Google+ page for EMS a few weeks before the grand 
>>>>>> opening.
>>>>>> I am crappy at keeping it updated, though.  Would you (Nathan or 
>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>> else) like me to add you as an administrator?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think this is the URL.
>>>>>> https://plus.google.com/u/0/111153472349343637677/posts
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 9:10 PM, InEugene<EMAIL HIDDEN>  wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Just did a Google search on my other email address and the second
>>>>>> result
>>>>>>> was 
>>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/pipermail/com.eugenemakerspace.discusseven 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> with the obfuscation. I'd prefer a system that stripped the email
>>>>>> addresses
>>>>>>> altogether. Maybe that's too complicated. I'd think you could do 
>>>>>>> a 'find
>>>>>>> words that contain "@" and replace with "..."' or something. 
>>>>>>> Talking to
>>>>>> Alex
>>>>>>> it sounds like changing the "@" to "at" would have little benefit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Standard size for avatars on the other forums I've worked on is
>>>>>> 100x100.
>>>>>>> If filesize is an issue we can always host them on imgur. Is 
>>>>>>> filesize an
>>>>>>> issue?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - I still don't seem to have admin access. If you go into the
>>>>>> Moderator/User
>>>>>>> Manager admin control panel you should be able to pull up my 
>>>>>>> account and
>>>>>>> then under Forum Administrator you can click on the toggle link 
>>>>>>> to assign
>>>>>>> administrative rights.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Side note: Are we planning on having a Google+ presence? I know
>>>>>> several of
>>>>>>> us are on there. I could set that up as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> /Nathan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/7/2012 7:42 PM, Mr. Clif wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hey Nathan,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes I was going to mention that. The lost password procedure is 
>>>>>>>> a two
>>>>>>>> step process. When it takes you to the login page you need to 
>>>>>>>> wait for
>>>>>>>> the second email which has your account name and new password, 
>>>>>>>> and as
>>>>>>>> Nathan has noted it might end up in your spam folder.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nathan wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Be aware, if you are using Gmail the reset password email may get
>>>>>>>>> stuck in your spam filter.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Also I'm checking with a friend of mine who works in messaging to
>>>>>>>>> determine what level of obfuscation will be sufficient to avoid
>>>>>>>>> harvesting. I'm not sure if just turning the "@" symbols to 
>>>>>>>>> "at" will
>>>>>>>>> do the trick as harvesters are pretty sophisticated. I don't 
>>>>>>>>> follow
>>>>>>>>> the email threat landscape very closely but Alex should have a 
>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>> idea what is required.
>>>>>>>> Excelent, I look forward to his insights. For comparisons sake 
>>>>>>>> this is
>>>>>>>> *All* that mailman does. You can check our archives here:
>>>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/pipermail/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss 
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> see. How many mailman installations are there? tens of 
>>>>>>>> thousands? 100s
>>>>>>>> of thousands? Anyway I agree, I think email obfuscation is 
>>>>>>>> mostly to
>>>>>>>> make users feel good, I don't think it's that practical. That 
>>>>>>>> is what
>>>>>>>> spam filters are for.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now, what I just wrote for the forums does more than this. It also
>>>>>>>> strips off the mailto: and<...>   around the addresses. Mailman 
>>>>>>>> doesn’t
>>>>>>>> bother with that.
>>>>>>>>> I believe we'll need to increase the max avatar size as well. I'm
>>>>>>>>> guessing it's set to default now and it's crazy small.
>>>>>>>> Ok what size seems reasonable to you?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I did make FAKESPAMACCOUNT for testing, the posts were for 
>>>>>>>>> testing as
>>>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - Nathan
>>>>>>>> Cool,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So we talked about our mailing list and forum policy at the board
>>>>>>>> meeting tonight, and decided that we like it the way it is for 
>>>>>>>> now, but
>>>>>>>> will be happy to adjust things when we start to have problems. 
>>>>>>>> It was
>>>>>>>> noted that most forums do allow unmoderated signups. So I think 
>>>>>>>> that the
>>>>>>>> next thing we will have to tweak is to bump the number of initial
>>>>>>>> moderated posts up to 2 etc...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ciao,
>>>>>>>> Clif
>>>>>>>>> On 3/7/2012 6:02 PM, Rick Osgood wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I would personally prefer it if the new users were moderated 
>>>>>>>>>> rather
>>>>>>>>>> than posts. It pisses me off to not be able to post to a forum
>>>>>>>>>> multiple times. I understand the first time, but then again and
>>>>>>>>>> again? I think many would agree that it is frustrating.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Also, what about making Nathan an admin? I didn't see a 
>>>>>>>>>> response to
>>>>>>>>>> that. That would help get moderation done quickly and help 
>>>>>>>>>> get things
>>>>>>>>>> tweaked and working faster.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Mr. 
>>>>>>>>>> Clif<EMAIL HIDDEN>   wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Nathan,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> InEugene wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you will want to switch that. As it stands making an
>>>>>>>>>>>> account is
>>>>>>>>>>>> unlocked and anyone can do create one in 30 seconds and have
>>>>>> access...
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes that is exactly the same as the mailing lists, and we 
>>>>>>>>>>> haven't
>>>>>> had a
>>>>>>>>>>> problem with them yet. In fact Rick decided that it was too 
>>>>>>>>>>> hard to
>>>>>>>>>>> post to
>>>>>>>>>>> the board list so he opened it up to everyone.
>>>>>>>>>>>> ...to the but all posts are moderated. What you will want 
>>>>>>>>>>>> to do is
>>>>>>>>>>>> make it
>>>>>>>>>>>> so all new members have to be approved and posts are 
>>>>>>>>>>>> unmoderated,
>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise
>>>>>>>>>>>> someone will have to constantly be moderating posts.
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, perhaps that will become a problem someday, maybe even 
>>>>>>>>>>> soon. At
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> time we can easily switch. The forum uses Captcha so at 
>>>>>>>>>>> least bots
>>>>>>>>>>> can't
>>>>>>>>>>> easily register, and the first N posts of a new user are 
>>>>>>>>>>> moderated.
>>>>>>>>>>> Right
>>>>>>>>>>> now N is one, so we will probably have to bump that up.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I see someone made a FAKESPAMACCOUNT
>>>>>>>>>>> <http://forum.eugenemakerspace.com/index.php?t=usrinfo&id=26&>   
>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>> that you?
>>>>>>>>>>> unfortunately those posts are still in the moderation 
>>>>>>>>>>> queue... and
>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>> they're gone.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> When can you obfuscate the email addresses? You might want 
>>>>>>>>>>>> to pull
>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>> forums back down until that can be done.
>>>>>>>>>>> Done.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ciao,
>>>>>>>>>>> Clif
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/7/2012 4:10 PM, Mr. Clif wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes anyone can read the forums, but only registered users can
>>>>>>>>>>>>> post, which
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the same for the mailing lists.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only emails that came from quoted text in the lists are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>> those can be obfuscated in the same way the forum archives 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clif
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm seeing a rather large problem with this. Correct me 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrong but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it looks like anyone can access these forums. It also 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email address is visible here. I'm pretty sure this will 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> result
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in all of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our email addresses being harvested for spam and phishing 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attacks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Nathan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/7/2012 8:53 AM, Clif Cox wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You log in to the forum using the lost password procedure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (just the first time) and navigate to the topic of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interest.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then you select the "Subscribe to topic" link at the top of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the page. You will probably also want to go to your member
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> profile to fine tune some other settings.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can also pull down new topics from a forum in an RSS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feed, though I'm not sure you can just select messages in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> topic, eg:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://forum.eugenemakerspace.com/feed.php?mode=t&l=1&n=10&frm=1&format=rss 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ciao!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clif
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Bob Miller                              K<bob>
>>>>>>                                          EMAIL HIDDEN
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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