[EMS Discuss] New Linked Forums

Ellery Weber EMAIL HIDDEN
Thu Mar 15 20:59:39 PDT 2012


+1 to Ben.

It's easy to get snippy/rude/inappropriate when conversations are happening
over email.

As per the email Rick just sent out, we will have a discussion on forums.
Everyone, please table this discussion until then.

As always, we want the discuss mailing list to stay upbeat. Lets do our
best to keep these positive!


--- Ellery Weber


On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 8:49 PM, Ben Hallert - Vipmail <EMAIL HIDDEN>wrote:

> Hey, this isn't cool.  I suggest tabling this until the meeting, the EMS
> is not putting its best face forward here.
>
> - Ben
>
> On Mar 15, 2012, at 8:32 PM, "Mr. Clif" <EMAIL HIDDEN> wrote:
>
> > Hey Nathan,
> >
> > I'm sorry that we don't communicate well, I couldn't even get you to
> answer a simple question about avatar file sizes, not sure why. If we had a
> simple discussion from the get go we would have been done a long time ago.
> > I'm sorry in that other thread we had a flame out. I was trying to steer
> it to better questions, which we never got to because you got upset with
> me, and called me a dictator, not a big deal ;-) . I am still trying to get
> to these questions. so why don't you relax and let us talk about them,
> instead of interupting. Something good might come of it. Ok?
> >
> > What I truly feel is that the only thing that has ever blocked us from
> moving forward has been the lack of nice  relaxed sane discussion, and we
> have time to do that while we wait for the meeting to roll around.
> >
> >    Thanks for listening,
> >    Clif
> >
> > In Eugene wrote:
> >> Well Clif,
> >>
> >> I wasn't actually addressing my email to you, but since you asked. As
> >> I was accused of being divisive, forming factions and my character was
> >> called into question in the last email thread on this topic. I'm going
> >> to have to disagree. I believe the open member meeting would be a much
> >> better place for this discussion. As several months passed between the
> >> time I suggested a forum initially and when I actually created one I
> >> think we can wait a few more days. Then we can see if I actually do
> >> argue the loudest as I was accused of that as well. I understand you
> >> are in damage control mode now, I believe that can wait as well. That
> >> is your choice of course.
> >>
> >> - Nathan
> >>
> >> On 3/15/2012 3:31 PM, Mr. Clif wrote:
> >>
> >>> Yes Nathan,
> >>>
> >>> but isn't it better to predigest things as we have time for them now,
> and hopefully take less time at the meeting to finish them off? If our
> addenda is full it might be a lot to cram into a couple hours.
> >>>
> >>> I feel that if say, five or six people (hopefully more) responded we
> would have enough input to chose our direction. If that were the case then
> we could talk about tuning up the new direction at the meeting instead of
> >>> wondering what it was.
> >>>
> >>>     That is my hope anyway,
> >>>     Clif
> >>>
> >>> InEugene wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I was under the impression that this was also going to be addressed
> at the open member meeting.
> >>>>
> >>>> -Nathan
> >>>>
> >>>> On 3/15/2012 2:18 PM, Mr. Clif wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Yes, I like that as well Ben, and there are about a dozen check
> boxes to detail your privacy settings, and more than 20 profile settings
> overall on the current forum.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     Clif
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ben Hallert - Vipmail wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Personally, I like the idea of openly viewable forums (like phpbb)
> with handles so the amount of exposed private info is controllable by each
> individual.  I hope this option is considered as well.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - Ben
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mar 15, 2012, at 1:42 PM, "Mr. Clif"<EMAIL HIDDEN>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hey Gang,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Rick Osgood wrote:
> >>>>>>> [...]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Is there another way we can sort of vote on these things so a
> majority
> >>>>>>>> of the forum users are happy?  Can we have a poll in the forum so
> they
> >>>>>>>> can vote on various features and then the forum is changed
> >>>>>>>> accordingly?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Just some thoughts.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Rick
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I feel like discussion has stalled on this. I hope you don't think
> I'm bad because I also want to take a straw poll before taking action, and
> I considered Rick's suggestion of doing it in the forum, though more people
> are on this list...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Mr. Clif wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Good thoughts Rick,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> [...]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> If we set up new admins. Do they then get total say on which way
> to go? I don't see how that changes anything, but if you think thats best,
>  I will be happy to make new admins.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Clif
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> It seems like we have a lot of suggestions, and several people
> able to take action but not a clear direction yet. Here is an example, Rick
> also suggested that we take the mail archives offline for now, and he and
> Ellery can do that if they want. Though apparently no one felt like that
> was the course to take yet so again no action was taken.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I have been consistantly pushing for a good process not tied to
> any outcome. Like Rick says "so a majority
> >>>>>>> of the forum users are happy" is absolutely my goal. the only
> thing blocking us is the lack of discussion. Please don't think I am asking
> so I can run things. Our goal from the start was to turn it over to some
> other admins. I feel strongly that we should somewhat agree on what
> direction to take it first that's all. Do you think I'm being too difficult?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Here is what I know about peoples probable answers to my questions
> below:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Nathan:    seems to prefer closed forums, and suggested that the
> archives have all addresses redacted.
> >>>>>>> Rick:         suggested that the archives be taken offline at
> least for now.
> >>>>>>> Ellery:      Didn't like the addresses in the forums but it wasn't
> clear if that was before or after they were
> >>>>>>>                  obscured. I sent him some material to help him
> get caught up, and hoped for a suggestion.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>     Sorry I feel I should remember a few more opinions, please
> repost here so we can have a good group process.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>     Thanks, :-)
> >>>>>>>     Clif
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Mr. Clif wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Dear EMS members,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I felt that part of the lively discussion we had the other day
> was productive, even though there was a flame out at the end. I'm referring
> to the part where a lot of people chimed in with their opinion on how the
> user registration should be handled. I was very happy to see that many
> people following the debate and contributing their ideas. Maybe we could
> try that again with a different question. Strange as it may seem I have
> asked different versions of this question to the board and a few members
> but haven’t gotten a good sense of the collective will of the people or
> even the board! Which is really frustrating for me, because I feel strongly
> that just two or three people shouldn't decide something that affects all
> the members and how the organization is perceived from the outside, on
> their own. It's a hard question partly because it's about philosophy and
> tradeoffs.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Here it is in a nut shell:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> We are currently a small but growing group of people who like to
> share our ideas and projects, and one of the ways we do this is on this
> email list. There are others who prefer forums to emails, and some who like
> news groups or RSS feeds. If we link all these things together everyone can
> participate in these discussions using their favorite format.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I feel that EMS as an org tries to be as open with it's
> information as possible and make it easy to find out about us and to
> interact. That is the philosophy as I see it. So up till now our mailing
> list archives and our prototype forums have been open and readable by all,
> including search engines. So for example if someone is looking for a Rubins
> tube project they will see Rick talking about it in the archives or forums.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The trade off is that there are some email addresses in the
> quoted messages in our posts that will show up in both places, and there is
> a minimal amount of obscuration done to them by both packages. There is
> some small amount of coding and maintenance required to do more than that.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> So the question is; should we continue our philosophy of
> openness, or close our archives, and forums?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> If we keep them open then how should we handle the email
> addresses?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Leave them as they are, "joe at foo.bar.com" and let our
> personal spam filters deal with the few extra spams picked up? The archives
> have been around since October, has anyone noticed a change?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Or one of these options:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>     "joe at foo dot bar dot com"
> >>>>>>>>     "joe at spam-protected"
> >>>>>>>>     removed completely
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> or something I didn't think of?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Thanks for your input it helps a lot.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>     Clif
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Ellery Weber wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I'm kinda late to this discussion, but I would also really
> prefer that our
> >>>>>>>>> email address not be on the forums...
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> --- Ellery Weber
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Bob Miller<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>    wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I created a Google+ page for EMS a few weeks before the grand
> opening.
> >>>>>>>>>> I am crappy at keeping it updated, though.  Would you (Nathan
> or anyone
> >>>>>>>>>> else) like me to add you as an administrator?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I think this is the URL.
> >>>>>>>>>> https://plus.google.com/u/0/111153472349343637677/posts
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 9:10 PM, InEugene<EMAIL HIDDEN>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello,
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> - Just did a Google search on my other email address and the
> second
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> result
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> was
> http://eugenemakerspace.com/pipermail/com.eugenemakerspace.discusseven
> >>>>>>>>>>> with the obfuscation. I'd prefer a system that stripped the
> email
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> addresses
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> altogether. Maybe that's too complicated. I'd think you could
> do a 'find
> >>>>>>>>>>> words that contain "@" and replace with "..."' or something.
> Talking to
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Alex
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> it sounds like changing the "@" to "at" would have little
> benefit.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> - Standard size for avatars on the other forums I've worked on
> is
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> 100x100.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> If filesize is an issue we can always host them on imgur. Is
> filesize an
> >>>>>>>>>>> issue?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> - I still don't seem to have admin access. If you go into the
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Moderator/User
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Manager admin control panel you should be able to pull up my
> account and
> >>>>>>>>>>> then under Forum Administrator you can click on the toggle
> link to assign
> >>>>>>>>>>> administrative rights.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> - Side note: Are we planning on having a Google+ presence? I
> know
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> several of
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> us are on there. I could set that up as well.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> /Nathan
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 3/7/2012 7:42 PM, Mr. Clif wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Nathan,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I was going to mention that. The lost password procedure
> is a two
> >>>>>>>>>>>> step process. When it takes you to the login page you need to
> wait for
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the second email which has your account name and new
> password, and as
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Nathan has noted it might end up in your spam folder.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Nathan wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Be aware, if you are using Gmail the reset password email
> may get
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> stuck in your spam filter.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Also I'm checking with a friend of mine who works in
> messaging to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> determine what level of obfuscation will be sufficient to
> avoid
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> harvesting. I'm not sure if just turning the "@" symbols to
> "at" will
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> do the trick as harvesters are pretty sophisticated. I don't
> follow
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the email threat landscape very closely but Alex should have
> a good
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> idea what is required.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Excelent, I look forward to his insights. For comparisons
> sake this is
> >>>>>>>>>>>> *All* that mailman does. You can check our archives here:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> http://eugenemakerspace.com/pipermail/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> see. How many mailman installations are there? tens of
> thousands? 100s
> >>>>>>>>>>>> of thousands? Anyway I agree, I think email obfuscation is
> mostly to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> make users feel good, I don't think it's that practical. That
> is what
> >>>>>>>>>>>> spam filters are for.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Now, what I just wrote for the forums does more than this. It
> also
> >>>>>>>>>>>> strips off the mailto: and<...>    around the addresses.
> Mailman doesn’t
> >>>>>>>>>>>> bother with that.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe we'll need to increase the max avatar size as
> well. I'm
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> guessing it's set to default now and it's crazy small.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Ok what size seems reasonable to you?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I did make FAKESPAMACCOUNT for testing, the posts were for
> testing as
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> well.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> - Nathan
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Cool,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> So we talked about our mailing list and forum policy at the
> board
> >>>>>>>>>>>> meeting tonight, and decided that we like it the way it is
> for now, but
> >>>>>>>>>>>> will be happy to adjust things when we start to have
> problems. It was
> >>>>>>>>>>>> noted that most forums do allow unmoderated signups. So I
> think that the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> next thing we will have to tweak is to bump the number of
> initial
> >>>>>>>>>>>> moderated posts up to 2 etc...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Ciao,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Clif
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/7/2012 6:02 PM, Rick Osgood wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would personally prefer it if the new users were
> moderated rather
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> than posts. It pisses me off to not be able to post to a
> forum
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> multiple times. I understand the first time, but then again
> and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> again? I think many would agree that it is frustrating.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, what about making Nathan an admin? I didn't see a
> response to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that. That would help get moderation done quickly and help
> get things
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tweaked and working faster.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Mr. Clif<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>    wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nathan,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> InEugene wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you will want to switch that. As it stands making
> an
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unlocked and anyone can do create one in 30 seconds and
> have
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> access...
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes that is exactly the same as the mailing lists, and we
> haven't
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> had a
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem with them yet. In fact Rick decided that it was
> too hard to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> post to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the board list so he opened it up to everyone.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...to the but all posts are moderated. What you will want
> to do is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so all new members have to be approved and posts are
> unmoderated,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone will have to constantly be moderating posts.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, perhaps that will become a problem someday, maybe
> even soon. At
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time we can easily switch. The forum uses Captcha so at
> least bots
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easily register, and the first N posts of a new user are
> moderated.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now N is one, so we will probably have to bump that up.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see someone made a FAKESPAMACCOUNT
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> http://forum.eugenemakerspace.com/index.php?t=usrinfo&id=26&>    was
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that you?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unfortunately those posts are still in the moderation
> queue... and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> now
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they're gone.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When can you obfuscate the email addresses? You might
> want to pull
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forums back down until that can be done.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Done.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ciao,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clif
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/7/2012 4:10 PM, Mr. Clif wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes anyone can read the forums, but only registered
> users can
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> post, which
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the same for the mailing lists.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only emails that came from quoted text in the lists are
> visible,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> but
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those can be obfuscated in the same way the forum
> archives are.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clif
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm seeing a rather large problem with this. Correct me
> if I'm
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrong but
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it looks like anyone can access these forums. It also
> looks like
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone's
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email address is visible here. I'm pretty sure this
> will result
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in all of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our email addresses being harvested for spam and
> phishing attacks.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Nathan
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/7/2012 8:53 AM, Clif Cox wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, :)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You log in to the forum using the lost password
> procedure
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (just the first time) and navigate to the topic of
> interest.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then you select the "Subscribe to topic" link at the
> top of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the page. You will probably also want to go to your
> member
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> profile to fine tune some other settings.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can also pull down new topics from a forum in an
> RSS
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feed, though I'm not sure you can just select messages
> in a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> topic, eg:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> http://forum.eugenemakerspace.com/feed.php?mode=t&l=1&n=10&frm=1&format=rss
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ciao!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clif
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>> Bob Miller                              K<bob>
> >>>>>>>>>>                                          EMAIL HIDDEN
> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
> >>>>>>>>>>
> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
> >>>>>>>>>
> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
> >>>>>>>>
> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
> >>>>>>>
> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Discuss mailing list
> >>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
> >>>>>>
> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Discuss mailing list
> >>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
> >>>>>
> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss
> >>>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Discuss mailing list
> >>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
> >>>>
> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Discuss mailing list
> >> EMAIL HIDDEN
> >>
> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Discuss mailing list
> > EMAIL HIDDEN
> >
> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> EMAIL HIDDEN
> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss
>
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