[EMS Discuss] Vacuum former fundraiser

Rick Osgood EMAIL HIDDEN
Mon Aug 26 15:07:03 PDT 2013


Below are his recommendations for vacuum systems.  We are starting with a 2
x 2 system with the hopes of upgrading later.  Therefore we can get away
with the smaller stuff for now if we don't mind spending money down the
road to upgrade.  Or we go all out now and we are prepared in case we ever
upgrade the machine.

It sounds like we should use either a Piston Pump or a Rotary Vane Pump.  A
piston pump is basically just like an air compressor hooked up backwards.
 He says they can pull 20 to 25 inches of vacuum.  A rotary vane pump can
pull between 24 and 28 inches depending on how much you spend basically.
 He recommends you get a pump that pulls *at least 25 inches of vacuum*.
 27 to 28 is better and 29 is "outstanding".  Also, you want a pump that
can get to >25 inches in under 3 minutes.  The longer it's on the more
annoying it is and you risk over-working the pump.  *He says to  get a pump
that is 2-4 CFM for every 10 gallons of tank size.*

He recommends about *1 gallon of tank size for every 25 to 45 square inches
of sheet size*.  But bigger is better as long as we attach a big enough
pump to a large tank.  Old air compressor tanks, propane tanks, water
heater tanks, etc can work for this.

"budget" will work for up to 1/8" thick plastic.  Perhaps more.
 "performance" will form Polycarbonate and give you the best part
definition.  I'd like to aim for average (or better if we can find the
parts cheap).

*Machine Size  -   Suggested Tank and Pump Sizes*
2 x 2 Budget         - 15 gal. tank - 5 CFM pump
2 x 2 Average        - 18 - 20 gal. tank - 5 CFM to 7 CFM pump
2 x 2 Performance - 25 gal. tank - 7 to 10 CFM pump

2 x 4 Budget 30 gal. tank - 10 CFM pump
2 x 4 Average 35             - 40 gal. tank - 10 to 17 CFM pump
2 x 4 Performance 45       - 50 gal. - 17 to 21 CFM pump


On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Ellery Weber <EMAIL HIDDEN>wrote:

> I think that, for the size platen that Rick is using (even at the small
> size) a shop vac will not provide adequate suction. Also, iirc, shop vacs
> quickly hit a vacuum limit; they are not really designed to create a vacuum
> like what is needed for the vacu-former.****
>
> ** **
>
> Did a quick google and found that you get much better definition and a
> faster pull with a vacuum pump w/ tanks vs a shop vac:****
>
> ** **
>
> http://www.build-stuff.com/001book_vacuum_forming.htm****
>
> ** **
>
> *Chapter 3 - Vacuum Sources*
>
> A simple explanation of what vacuum is and how its measured, with charts
> and conversion tables. Vacuum is commonly rated in "Inches of Mercury" (IN.
> HG.)  Most commercial vacuum forming is done with 25 -27 IN.HG. with a
> maximum of about 30 inches possible.****
>
> *Note:**Vacuum cleaners only pull 4 to 6 IN.HG. out of a possible 30
> IN.HG. Don't be fooled by the commercials that show them picking up bowling
> balls. It doesn't matter how many horsepower, or how loud it is, or how
> much it dims the lights.  Even the best "Shop Vacs"  don't pull very hard,
> they just flow a lot of air!*****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* EMAIL HIDDEN [mailto:
> EMAIL HIDDEN] *On Behalf Of *Hovis
> Biddle
> *Sent:* Monday, August 26, 2013 1:39 PM
> *To:* Rick Osgood
> *Cc:* EMAIL HIDDEN
> *Subject:* Re: [EMS Discuss] Vacuum former fundraiser****
>
> ** **
>
> Looks awesome!****
>
> I was thinking of keeping my eyes open for the parts we'll need for the
> next stage.  I think I've seen some systems online that get away with a
> shop vac, do we need more suction than a shop vac can pull?  If you can
> post any sort of specs or whatever I'll start looking around and seeing
> what I can scrounge up.****
>
> ** **
>
> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN>
> wrote:****
>
> OK I got the parts ordered!  Thanks everyone for your assistance.  In case
> you are curious, this is what I ordered:****
>
> ** **
>
> http://build-stuff.com/FastHeatFlyer.htm****
>
> ** **
>
> I purchased the 2x2 single zone.  Later if we want to upgrade we can
> purchase another one and expand the machine size pretty easily.  They don't
> come assembled as you see in the photo so we will be constructing them to
> look like the photo.****
>
> ** **
>
> Rick****
>
> ** **
>
> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN>
> wrote:****
>
> Thanks everyone!  I'll get that ordered today.****
>
> ** **
>
> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 9:36 AM, James Hukill <EMAIL HIDDEN> wrote:***
> *
>
> Sweet!!! Can't wait to use it.
>
> Next major project we kickstarter it!!!
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone****
>
>
> On Aug 26, 2013, at 9:34 AM, EMAIL HIDDEN wrote:
>
> >
> > I got it.  Meant to do more, actually, but just forgot.  So hit me up if
> there are unforeseen expenses.  I'll use PayPal.
> >
> > -Darrell
> >
> >> It looks like I need $25 more to get these parts purchased.  Are there
> any
> >> takers?  Let me know and I can work out a way to collect it if you don't
> >> want to use Paypal or Google wallet.
> >>
> >> Rick
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 8:48 AM, Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Thanks everyone!  Between all of us we should have enough funds to
> move on
> >>> to the next step.  Mark, I'll send you my account number again.  If
> anyone
> >>> else is an OCCU member, let me know and I can send you my account info
> too.
> >>> That's the quickest easiest way to transfer the money.  I'm getting a
> >>> personal Paypal account setup now so others who have Paypal can use
> that to
> >>> "gift" the funds to me.  Anyone who wants to just hand me cash in
> person,
> >>> please let me know and we can just set a time to meet at EMS.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks so much!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Greg Norman <EMAIL HIDDEN>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> What's the best way to get you the $$?   Pay Pall work?
> >>>>
> >>>> Greg
> >>>>
> >>>>  ------------------------------
> >>>> *From:* Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN>
> >>>> *To:* discuss <EMAIL HIDDEN>
> >>>> *Sent:* Friday, August 9, 2013 2:04 PM
> >>>> *Subject:* [EMS Discuss] Vacuum former fundraiser
> >>>>
> >>>> We're finally nearing completion of the vacuum former.  Unfortunately
> the
> >>>> last couple of steps require that we spend larger chunks of money in
> order
> >>>> to proceed.  I don't have enough money right now to drop on all of
> this so
> >>>> I thought I would reach out to the EMS community to see if anyone
> wanted to
> >>>> donate some money to the project.  When the vacuum former is
> completed, it
> >>>> will live at EMS and be available for all members to use.  That was
> always
> >>>> the idea.
> >>>>
> >>>> The final three steps we have to do are:
> >>>>
> >>>> 1. Purchase, build and install the heating elements ($226.00)
> >>>> 2. Purchase and install the vacuum pump system (~$400-$500 if
> everything
> >>>> is bought)
> >>>> 3. Install the electrical system (Not sure on the price yet as I have
> not
> >>>> researched it)
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm hoping to try and get the $226 together to order the heating
> element
> >>>> kits so we can work on that.  Once that is completed, I intend to
> update
> >>>> the group and see if we can organize more funding for the vacuum
> system.
> >>>> When that time comes, I'll have a more detailed plan to show what it
> >>>> should specifically cost and where that money is going.
> >>>>
> >>>> The heating element kit really needs to be purchased from this source
> as
> >>>> it's one of the most finicky parts of the build.  These kits are
> designed
> >>>> specifically for this machine.  The vacuum system we may be able to
> cut
> >>>> costs if anyone has a big enough tank (or tanks) and a vacuum pump
> that can
> >>>> draw a good enough vacuum.  I'll send more details about that once we
> get
> >>>> to that step in the build process.
> >>>>
> >>>> If you have anything you would like to donate to the cause, please
> let me
> >>>> know and we can work it out.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks!
> >>>>
> >>>> Rick
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Discuss mailing list
> >>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
> >>>>
> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss
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> >
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