[EMS Discuss] Vacuum former fundraiser

Bob Miller EMAIL HIDDEN
Mon Aug 26 22:42:57 PDT 2013


Would this pump be usable to vacuum bag wood or fiberglass assemblies,
or would it be 100% dedicated to the vacuum former?

See me in person and I'll contribute toward the next phase equipment.

On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:07 PM, Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN> wrote:
> Below are his recommendations for vacuum systems.  We are starting with a 2
> x 2 system with the hopes of upgrading later.  Therefore we can get away
> with the smaller stuff for now if we don't mind spending money down the road
> to upgrade.  Or we go all out now and we are prepared in case we ever
> upgrade the machine.
>
> It sounds like we should use either a Piston Pump or a Rotary Vane Pump.  A
> piston pump is basically just like an air compressor hooked up backwards.
> He says they can pull 20 to 25 inches of vacuum.  A rotary vane pump can
> pull between 24 and 28 inches depending on how much you spend basically.  He
> recommends you get a pump that pulls at least 25 inches of vacuum.  27 to 28
> is better and 29 is "outstanding".  Also, you want a pump that can get to
>>25 inches in under 3 minutes.  The longer it's on the more annoying it is
> and you risk over-working the pump.  He says to  get a pump that is 2-4 CFM
> for every 10 gallons of tank size.
>
> He recommends about 1 gallon of tank size for every 25 to 45 square inches
> of sheet size.  But bigger is better as long as we attach a big enough pump
> to a large tank.  Old air compressor tanks, propane tanks, water heater
> tanks, etc can work for this.
>
> "budget" will work for up to 1/8" thick plastic.  Perhaps more.
> "performance" will form Polycarbonate and give you the best part definition.
> I'd like to aim for average (or better if we can find the parts cheap).
>
> Machine Size  -   Suggested Tank and Pump Sizes
> 2 x 2 Budget         - 15 gal. tank - 5 CFM pump
> 2 x 2 Average        - 18 - 20 gal. tank - 5 CFM to 7 CFM pump
> 2 x 2 Performance - 25 gal. tank - 7 to 10 CFM pump
>
> 2 x 4 Budget 30 gal. tank - 10 CFM pump
> 2 x 4 Average 35             - 40 gal. tank - 10 to 17 CFM pump
> 2 x 4 Performance 45       - 50 gal. - 17 to 21 CFM pump
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Ellery Weber <EMAIL HIDDEN>
> wrote:
>>
>> I think that, for the size platen that Rick is using (even at the small
>> size) a shop vac will not provide adequate suction. Also, iirc, shop vacs
>> quickly hit a vacuum limit; they are not really designed to create a vacuum
>> like what is needed for the vacu-former.
>>
>>
>>
>> Did a quick google and found that you get much better definition and a
>> faster pull with a vacuum pump w/ tanks vs a shop vac:
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.build-stuff.com/001book_vacuum_forming.htm
>>
>>
>>
>> Chapter 3 - Vacuum Sources
>>
>> A simple explanation of what vacuum is and how its measured, with charts
>> and conversion tables. Vacuum is commonly rated in "Inches of Mercury" (IN.
>> HG.)  Most commercial vacuum forming is done with 25 -27 IN.HG. with a
>> maximum of about 30 inches possible.
>>
>> Note:Vacuum cleaners only pull 4 to 6 IN.HG. out of a possible 30 IN.HG.
>> Don't be fooled by the commercials that show them picking up bowling balls.
>> It doesn't matter how many horsepower, or how loud it is, or how much it
>> dims the lights.  Even the best "Shop Vacs"  don't pull very hard, they just
>> flow a lot of air!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: EMAIL HIDDEN
>> [mailto:EMAIL HIDDEN] On Behalf
>> Of Hovis Biddle
>> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 1:39 PM
>> To: Rick Osgood
>> Cc: EMAIL HIDDEN
>> Subject: Re: [EMS Discuss] Vacuum former fundraiser
>>
>>
>>
>> Looks awesome!
>>
>> I was thinking of keeping my eyes open for the parts we'll need for the
>> next stage.  I think I've seen some systems online that get away with a shop
>> vac, do we need more suction than a shop vac can pull?  If you can post any
>> sort of specs or whatever I'll start looking around and seeing what I can
>> scrounge up.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN>
>> wrote:
>>
>> OK I got the parts ordered!  Thanks everyone for your assistance.  In case
>> you are curious, this is what I ordered:
>>
>>
>>
>> http://build-stuff.com/FastHeatFlyer.htm
>>
>>
>>
>> I purchased the 2x2 single zone.  Later if we want to upgrade we can
>> purchase another one and expand the machine size pretty easily.  They don't
>> come assembled as you see in the photo so we will be constructing them to
>> look like the photo.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rick
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks everyone!  I'll get that ordered today.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 9:36 AM, James Hukill <EMAIL HIDDEN> wrote:
>>
>> Sweet!!! Can't wait to use it.
>>
>> Next major project we kickstarter it!!!
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Aug 26, 2013, at 9:34 AM, EMAIL HIDDEN wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > I got it.  Meant to do more, actually, but just forgot.  So hit me up if
>> > there are unforeseen expenses.  I'll use PayPal.
>> >
>> > -Darrell
>> >
>> >> It looks like I need $25 more to get these parts purchased.  Are there
>> >> any
>> >> takers?  Let me know and I can work out a way to collect it if you
>> >> don't
>> >> want to use Paypal or Google wallet.
>> >>
>> >> Rick
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 8:48 AM, Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Thanks everyone!  Between all of us we should have enough funds to
>> >>> move on
>> >>> to the next step.  Mark, I'll send you my account number again.  If
>> >>> anyone
>> >>> else is an OCCU member, let me know and I can send you my account info
>> >>> too.
>> >>> That's the quickest easiest way to transfer the money.  I'm getting a
>> >>> personal Paypal account setup now so others who have Paypal can use
>> >>> that to
>> >>> "gift" the funds to me.  Anyone who wants to just hand me cash in
>> >>> person,
>> >>> please let me know and we can just set a time to meet at EMS.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks so much!
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Greg Norman <EMAIL HIDDEN>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> What's the best way to get you the $$?   Pay Pall work?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Greg
>> >>>>
>> >>>>  ------------------------------
>> >>>> *From:* Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN>
>> >>>> *To:* discuss <EMAIL HIDDEN>
>> >>>> *Sent:* Friday, August 9, 2013 2:04 PM
>> >>>> *Subject:* [EMS Discuss] Vacuum former fundraiser
>> >>>>
>> >>>> We're finally nearing completion of the vacuum former.  Unfortunately
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> last couple of steps require that we spend larger chunks of money in
>> >>>> order
>> >>>> to proceed.  I don't have enough money right now to drop on all of
>> >>>> this so
>> >>>> I thought I would reach out to the EMS community to see if anyone
>> >>>> wanted to
>> >>>> donate some money to the project.  When the vacuum former is
>> >>>> completed, it
>> >>>> will live at EMS and be available for all members to use.  That was
>> >>>> always
>> >>>> the idea.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The final three steps we have to do are:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 1. Purchase, build and install the heating elements ($226.00)
>> >>>> 2. Purchase and install the vacuum pump system (~$400-$500 if
>> >>>> everything
>> >>>> is bought)
>> >>>> 3. Install the electrical system (Not sure on the price yet as I have
>> >>>> not
>> >>>> researched it)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm hoping to try and get the $226 together to order the heating
>> >>>> element
>> >>>> kits so we can work on that.  Once that is completed, I intend to
>> >>>> update
>> >>>> the group and see if we can organize more funding for the vacuum
>> >>>> system.
>> >>>> When that time comes, I'll have a more detailed plan to show what it
>> >>>> should specifically cost and where that money is going.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The heating element kit really needs to be purchased from this source
>> >>>> as
>> >>>> it's one of the most finicky parts of the build.  These kits are
>> >>>> designed
>> >>>> specifically for this machine.  The vacuum system we may be able to
>> >>>> cut
>> >>>> costs if anyone has a big enough tank (or tanks) and a vacuum pump
>> >>>> that can
>> >>>> draw a good enough vacuum.  I'll send more details about that once we
>> >>>> get
>> >>>> to that step in the build process.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> If you have anything you would like to donate to the cause, please
>> >>>> let me
>> >>>> know and we can work it out.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Thanks!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Rick
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Discuss mailing list
>> >>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
>> >>>>
>> >>>> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss
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-- 
Bob Miller                              K<bob>
                                        EMAIL HIDDEN


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