[EMS Discuss] Vacuum former fundraiser

Kevin King EMAIL HIDDEN
Mon Aug 26 23:14:46 PDT 2013


I just found this on Craigslist. Posted today. 5 two stage vacuum pump $125. 

http://eugene.craigslist.org/tls/4028041379.html



On Aug 26, 2013, at 10:42 PM, Bob Miller <EMAIL HIDDEN> wrote:

> Would this pump be usable to vacuum bag wood or fiberglass assemblies,
> or would it be 100% dedicated to the vacuum former?
> 
> See me in person and I'll contribute toward the next phase equipment.
> 
> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:07 PM, Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN> wrote:
>> Below are his recommendations for vacuum systems.  We are starting with a 2
>> x 2 system with the hopes of upgrading later.  Therefore we can get away
>> with the smaller stuff for now if we don't mind spending money down the road
>> to upgrade.  Or we go all out now and we are prepared in case we ever
>> upgrade the machine.
>> 
>> It sounds like we should use either a Piston Pump or a Rotary Vane Pump.  A
>> piston pump is basically just like an air compressor hooked up backwards.
>> He says they can pull 20 to 25 inches of vacuum.  A rotary vane pump can
>> pull between 24 and 28 inches depending on how much you spend basically.  He
>> recommends you get a pump that pulls at least 25 inches of vacuum.  27 to 28
>> is better and 29 is "outstanding".  Also, you want a pump that can get to
>>> 25 inches in under 3 minutes.  The longer it's on the more annoying it is
>> and you risk over-working the pump.  He says to  get a pump that is 2-4 CFM
>> for every 10 gallons of tank size.
>> 
>> He recommends about 1 gallon of tank size for every 25 to 45 square inches
>> of sheet size.  But bigger is better as long as we attach a big enough pump
>> to a large tank.  Old air compressor tanks, propane tanks, water heater
>> tanks, etc can work for this.
>> 
>> "budget" will work for up to 1/8" thick plastic.  Perhaps more.
>> "performance" will form Polycarbonate and give you the best part definition.
>> I'd like to aim for average (or better if we can find the parts cheap).
>> 
>> Machine Size  -   Suggested Tank and Pump Sizes
>> 2 x 2 Budget         - 15 gal. tank - 5 CFM pump
>> 2 x 2 Average        - 18 - 20 gal. tank - 5 CFM to 7 CFM pump
>> 2 x 2 Performance - 25 gal. tank - 7 to 10 CFM pump
>> 
>> 2 x 4 Budget 30 gal. tank - 10 CFM pump
>> 2 x 4 Average 35             - 40 gal. tank - 10 to 17 CFM pump
>> 2 x 4 Performance 45       - 50 gal. - 17 to 21 CFM pump
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Ellery Weber <EMAIL HIDDEN>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think that, for the size platen that Rick is using (even at the small
>>> size) a shop vac will not provide adequate suction. Also, iirc, shop vacs
>>> quickly hit a vacuum limit; they are not really designed to create a vacuum
>>> like what is needed for the vacu-former.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Did a quick google and found that you get much better definition and a
>>> faster pull with a vacuum pump w/ tanks vs a shop vac:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> http://www.build-stuff.com/001book_vacuum_forming.htm
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Chapter 3 - Vacuum Sources
>>> 
>>> A simple explanation of what vacuum is and how its measured, with charts
>>> and conversion tables. Vacuum is commonly rated in "Inches of Mercury" (IN.
>>> HG.)  Most commercial vacuum forming is done with 25 -27 IN.HG. with a
>>> maximum of about 30 inches possible.
>>> 
>>> Note:Vacuum cleaners only pull 4 to 6 IN.HG. out of a possible 30 IN.HG.
>>> Don't be fooled by the commercials that show them picking up bowling balls.
>>> It doesn't matter how many horsepower, or how loud it is, or how much it
>>> dims the lights.  Even the best "Shop Vacs"  don't pull very hard, they just
>>> flow a lot of air!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: EMAIL HIDDEN
>>> [mailto:EMAIL HIDDEN] On Behalf
>>> Of Hovis Biddle
>>> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 1:39 PM
>>> To: Rick Osgood
>>> Cc: EMAIL HIDDEN
>>> Subject: Re: [EMS Discuss] Vacuum former fundraiser
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Looks awesome!
>>> 
>>> I was thinking of keeping my eyes open for the parts we'll need for the
>>> next stage.  I think I've seen some systems online that get away with a shop
>>> vac, do we need more suction than a shop vac can pull?  If you can post any
>>> sort of specs or whatever I'll start looking around and seeing what I can
>>> scrounge up.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> OK I got the parts ordered!  Thanks everyone for your assistance.  In case
>>> you are curious, this is what I ordered:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> http://build-stuff.com/FastHeatFlyer.htm
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I purchased the 2x2 single zone.  Later if we want to upgrade we can
>>> purchase another one and expand the machine size pretty easily.  They don't
>>> come assembled as you see in the photo so we will be constructing them to
>>> look like the photo.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Rick
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks everyone!  I'll get that ordered today.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 9:36 AM, James Hukill <EMAIL HIDDEN> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Sweet!!! Can't wait to use it.
>>> 
>>> Next major project we kickstarter it!!!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Aug 26, 2013, at 9:34 AM, EMAIL HIDDEN wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I got it.  Meant to do more, actually, but just forgot.  So hit me up if
>>>> there are unforeseen expenses.  I'll use PayPal.
>>>> 
>>>> -Darrell
>>>> 
>>>>> It looks like I need $25 more to get these parts purchased.  Are there
>>>>> any
>>>>> takers?  Let me know and I can work out a way to collect it if you
>>>>> don't
>>>>> want to use Paypal or Google wallet.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Rick
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 8:48 AM, Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks everyone!  Between all of us we should have enough funds to
>>>>>> move on
>>>>>> to the next step.  Mark, I'll send you my account number again.  If
>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>> else is an OCCU member, let me know and I can send you my account info
>>>>>> too.
>>>>>> That's the quickest easiest way to transfer the money.  I'm getting a
>>>>>> personal Paypal account setup now so others who have Paypal can use
>>>>>> that to
>>>>>> "gift" the funds to me.  Anyone who wants to just hand me cash in
>>>>>> person,
>>>>>> please let me know and we can just set a time to meet at EMS.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks so much!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Greg Norman <EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> What's the best way to get you the $$?   Pay Pall work?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Greg
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>> *From:* Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>> *To:* discuss <EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, August 9, 2013 2:04 PM
>>>>>>> *Subject:* [EMS Discuss] Vacuum former fundraiser
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> We're finally nearing completion of the vacuum former.  Unfortunately
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> last couple of steps require that we spend larger chunks of money in
>>>>>>> order
>>>>>>> to proceed.  I don't have enough money right now to drop on all of
>>>>>>> this so
>>>>>>> I thought I would reach out to the EMS community to see if anyone
>>>>>>> wanted to
>>>>>>> donate some money to the project.  When the vacuum former is
>>>>>>> completed, it
>>>>>>> will live at EMS and be available for all members to use.  That was
>>>>>>> always
>>>>>>> the idea.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The final three steps we have to do are:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 1. Purchase, build and install the heating elements ($226.00)
>>>>>>> 2. Purchase and install the vacuum pump system (~$400-$500 if
>>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>> is bought)
>>>>>>> 3. Install the electrical system (Not sure on the price yet as I have
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> researched it)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'm hoping to try and get the $226 together to order the heating
>>>>>>> element
>>>>>>> kits so we can work on that.  Once that is completed, I intend to
>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>> the group and see if we can organize more funding for the vacuum
>>>>>>> system.
>>>>>>> When that time comes, I'll have a more detailed plan to show what it
>>>>>>> should specifically cost and where that money is going.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The heating element kit really needs to be purchased from this source
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> it's one of the most finicky parts of the build.  These kits are
>>>>>>> designed
>>>>>>> specifically for this machine.  The vacuum system we may be able to
>>>>>>> cut
>>>>>>> costs if anyone has a big enough tank (or tanks) and a vacuum pump
>>>>>>> that can
>>>>>>> draw a good enough vacuum.  I'll send more details about that once we
>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>> to that step in the build process.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If you have anything you would like to donate to the cause, please
>>>>>>> let me
>>>>>>> know and we can work it out.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Rick
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Bob Miller                              K<bob>
>                                        EMAIL HIDDEN
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