[EMS Discuss] Vacuum former fundraiser

Rick Osgood EMAIL HIDDEN
Tue Aug 27 09:53:06 PDT 2013


I intend for this pump to be dedicated to the vacuum former.  I hate when I
can't use a tool because it's been taken apart or broken.  I'd prefer that
users will not have to reassemble the vacuum system in order to do a simple
vacuu-form.


On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:14 PM, Kevin King <EMAIL HIDDEN> wrote:

>
> I just found this on Craigslist. Posted today. 5 two stage vacuum pump
> $125.
>
> http://eugene.craigslist.org/tls/4028041379.html
>
>
>
> On Aug 26, 2013, at 10:42 PM, Bob Miller <EMAIL HIDDEN> wrote:
>
> > Would this pump be usable to vacuum bag wood or fiberglass assemblies,
> > or would it be 100% dedicated to the vacuum former?
> >
> > See me in person and I'll contribute toward the next phase equipment.
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:07 PM, Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN>
> wrote:
> >> Below are his recommendations for vacuum systems.  We are starting with
> a 2
> >> x 2 system with the hopes of upgrading later.  Therefore we can get away
> >> with the smaller stuff for now if we don't mind spending money down the
> road
> >> to upgrade.  Or we go all out now and we are prepared in case we ever
> >> upgrade the machine.
> >>
> >> It sounds like we should use either a Piston Pump or a Rotary Vane
> Pump.  A
> >> piston pump is basically just like an air compressor hooked up
> backwards.
> >> He says they can pull 20 to 25 inches of vacuum.  A rotary vane pump can
> >> pull between 24 and 28 inches depending on how much you spend
> basically.  He
> >> recommends you get a pump that pulls at least 25 inches of vacuum.  27
> to 28
> >> is better and 29 is "outstanding".  Also, you want a pump that can get
> to
> >>> 25 inches in under 3 minutes.  The longer it's on the more annoying it
> is
> >> and you risk over-working the pump.  He says to  get a pump that is 2-4
> CFM
> >> for every 10 gallons of tank size.
> >>
> >> He recommends about 1 gallon of tank size for every 25 to 45 square
> inches
> >> of sheet size.  But bigger is better as long as we attach a big enough
> pump
> >> to a large tank.  Old air compressor tanks, propane tanks, water heater
> >> tanks, etc can work for this.
> >>
> >> "budget" will work for up to 1/8" thick plastic.  Perhaps more.
> >> "performance" will form Polycarbonate and give you the best part
> definition.
> >> I'd like to aim for average (or better if we can find the parts cheap).
> >>
> >> Machine Size  -   Suggested Tank and Pump Sizes
> >> 2 x 2 Budget         - 15 gal. tank - 5 CFM pump
> >> 2 x 2 Average        - 18 - 20 gal. tank - 5 CFM to 7 CFM pump
> >> 2 x 2 Performance - 25 gal. tank - 7 to 10 CFM pump
> >>
> >> 2 x 4 Budget 30 gal. tank - 10 CFM pump
> >> 2 x 4 Average 35             - 40 gal. tank - 10 to 17 CFM pump
> >> 2 x 4 Performance 45       - 50 gal. - 17 to 21 CFM pump
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Ellery Weber <EMAIL HIDDEN>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I think that, for the size platen that Rick is using (even at the small
> >>> size) a shop vac will not provide adequate suction. Also, iirc, shop
> vacs
> >>> quickly hit a vacuum limit; they are not really designed to create a
> vacuum
> >>> like what is needed for the vacu-former.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Did a quick google and found that you get much better definition and a
> >>> faster pull with a vacuum pump w/ tanks vs a shop vac:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> http://www.build-stuff.com/001book_vacuum_forming.htm
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Chapter 3 - Vacuum Sources
> >>>
> >>> A simple explanation of what vacuum is and how its measured, with
> charts
> >>> and conversion tables. Vacuum is commonly rated in "Inches of Mercury"
> (IN.
> >>> HG.)  Most commercial vacuum forming is done with 25 -27 IN.HG. with a
> >>> maximum of about 30 inches possible.
> >>>
> >>> Note:Vacuum cleaners only pull 4 to 6 IN.HG. out of a possible 30
> IN.HG.
> >>> Don't be fooled by the commercials that show them picking up bowling
> balls.
> >>> It doesn't matter how many horsepower, or how loud it is, or how much
> it
> >>> dims the lights.  Even the best "Shop Vacs"  don't pull very hard,
> they just
> >>> flow a lot of air!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From: EMAIL HIDDEN
> >>> [mailto:EMAIL HIDDEN] On
> Behalf
> >>> Of Hovis Biddle
> >>> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 1:39 PM
> >>> To: Rick Osgood
> >>> Cc: EMAIL HIDDEN
> >>> Subject: Re: [EMS Discuss] Vacuum former fundraiser
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Looks awesome!
> >>>
> >>> I was thinking of keeping my eyes open for the parts we'll need for the
> >>> next stage.  I think I've seen some systems online that get away with
> a shop
> >>> vac, do we need more suction than a shop vac can pull?  If you can
> post any
> >>> sort of specs or whatever I'll start looking around and seeing what I
> can
> >>> scrounge up.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Rick Osgood <
> EMAIL HIDDEN>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> OK I got the parts ordered!  Thanks everyone for your assistance.  In
> case
> >>> you are curious, this is what I ordered:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> http://build-stuff.com/FastHeatFlyer.htm
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I purchased the 2x2 single zone.  Later if we want to upgrade we can
> >>> purchase another one and expand the machine size pretty easily.  They
> don't
> >>> come assembled as you see in the photo so we will be constructing them
> to
> >>> look like the photo.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Rick
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Rick Osgood <
> EMAIL HIDDEN>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Thanks everyone!  I'll get that ordered today.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 9:36 AM, James Hukill <EMAIL HIDDEN>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Sweet!!! Can't wait to use it.
> >>>
> >>> Next major project we kickstarter it!!!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Aug 26, 2013, at 9:34 AM, EMAIL HIDDEN wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I got it.  Meant to do more, actually, but just forgot.  So hit me up
> if
> >>>> there are unforeseen expenses.  I'll use PayPal.
> >>>>
> >>>> -Darrell
> >>>>
> >>>>> It looks like I need $25 more to get these parts purchased.  Are
> there
> >>>>> any
> >>>>> takers?  Let me know and I can work out a way to collect it if you
> >>>>> don't
> >>>>> want to use Paypal or Google wallet.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Rick
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 8:48 AM, Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN
> >
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks everyone!  Between all of us we should have enough funds to
> >>>>>> move on
> >>>>>> to the next step.  Mark, I'll send you my account number again.  If
> >>>>>> anyone
> >>>>>> else is an OCCU member, let me know and I can send you my account
> info
> >>>>>> too.
> >>>>>> That's the quickest easiest way to transfer the money.  I'm getting
> a
> >>>>>> personal Paypal account setup now so others who have Paypal can use
> >>>>>> that to
> >>>>>> "gift" the funds to me.  Anyone who wants to just hand me cash in
> >>>>>> person,
> >>>>>> please let me know and we can just set a time to meet at EMS.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks so much!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Greg Norman <EMAIL HIDDEN>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> What's the best way to get you the $$?   Pay Pall work?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Greg
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ------------------------------
> >>>>>>> *From:* Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN>
> >>>>>>> *To:* discuss <EMAIL HIDDEN>
> >>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, August 9, 2013 2:04 PM
> >>>>>>> *Subject:* [EMS Discuss] Vacuum former fundraiser
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> We're finally nearing completion of the vacuum former.
>  Unfortunately
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> last couple of steps require that we spend larger chunks of money
> in
> >>>>>>> order
> >>>>>>> to proceed.  I don't have enough money right now to drop on all of
> >>>>>>> this so
> >>>>>>> I thought I would reach out to the EMS community to see if anyone
> >>>>>>> wanted to
> >>>>>>> donate some money to the project.  When the vacuum former is
> >>>>>>> completed, it
> >>>>>>> will live at EMS and be available for all members to use.  That was
> >>>>>>> always
> >>>>>>> the idea.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The final three steps we have to do are:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 1. Purchase, build and install the heating elements ($226.00)
> >>>>>>> 2. Purchase and install the vacuum pump system (~$400-$500 if
> >>>>>>> everything
> >>>>>>> is bought)
> >>>>>>> 3. Install the electrical system (Not sure on the price yet as I
> have
> >>>>>>> not
> >>>>>>> researched it)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm hoping to try and get the $226 together to order the heating
> >>>>>>> element
> >>>>>>> kits so we can work on that.  Once that is completed, I intend to
> >>>>>>> update
> >>>>>>> the group and see if we can organize more funding for the vacuum
> >>>>>>> system.
> >>>>>>> When that time comes, I'll have a more detailed plan to show what
> it
> >>>>>>> should specifically cost and where that money is going.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The heating element kit really needs to be purchased from this
> source
> >>>>>>> as
> >>>>>>> it's one of the most finicky parts of the build.  These kits are
> >>>>>>> designed
> >>>>>>> specifically for this machine.  The vacuum system we may be able to
> >>>>>>> cut
> >>>>>>> costs if anyone has a big enough tank (or tanks) and a vacuum pump
> >>>>>>> that can
> >>>>>>> draw a good enough vacuum.  I'll send more details about that once
> we
> >>>>>>> get
> >>>>>>> to that step in the build process.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If you have anything you would like to donate to the cause, please
> >>>>>>> let me
> >>>>>>> know and we can work it out.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Rick
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
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> >>>>
> >>>>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >
> > --
> > Bob Miller                              K<bob>
> >                                        EMAIL HIDDEN
> > _______________________________________________
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