[EMS Discuss] Vacuum former fundraiser

Rick Osgood EMAIL HIDDEN
Tue Aug 27 14:18:00 PDT 2013


Darrell had a good idea to setup the plumbing so we can just attach a hose
to the vacuum former system so we don't have to actually unhook it and
remove it from the vacuum former itself.  I think this would be acceptable
since it would only really require the switching of a couple valves and the
vacuum pump can be used for other experiments if needed.


On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN>wrote:

> I intend for this pump to be dedicated to the vacuum former.  I hate when
> I can't use a tool because it's been taken apart or broken.  I'd prefer
> that users will not have to reassemble the vacuum system in order to do a
> simple vacuu-form.
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:14 PM, Kevin King <EMAIL HIDDEN> wrote:
>
>>
>> I just found this on Craigslist. Posted today. 5 two stage vacuum pump
>> $125.
>>
>> http://eugene.craigslist.org/tls/4028041379.html
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 26, 2013, at 10:42 PM, Bob Miller <EMAIL HIDDEN> wrote:
>>
>> > Would this pump be usable to vacuum bag wood or fiberglass assemblies,
>> > or would it be 100% dedicated to the vacuum former?
>> >
>> > See me in person and I'll contribute toward the next phase equipment.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:07 PM, Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN>
>> wrote:
>> >> Below are his recommendations for vacuum systems.  We are starting
>> with a 2
>> >> x 2 system with the hopes of upgrading later.  Therefore we can get
>> away
>> >> with the smaller stuff for now if we don't mind spending money down
>> the road
>> >> to upgrade.  Or we go all out now and we are prepared in case we ever
>> >> upgrade the machine.
>> >>
>> >> It sounds like we should use either a Piston Pump or a Rotary Vane
>> Pump.  A
>> >> piston pump is basically just like an air compressor hooked up
>> backwards.
>> >> He says they can pull 20 to 25 inches of vacuum.  A rotary vane pump
>> can
>> >> pull between 24 and 28 inches depending on how much you spend
>> basically.  He
>> >> recommends you get a pump that pulls at least 25 inches of vacuum.  27
>> to 28
>> >> is better and 29 is "outstanding".  Also, you want a pump that can get
>> to
>> >>> 25 inches in under 3 minutes.  The longer it's on the more annoying
>> it is
>> >> and you risk over-working the pump.  He says to  get a pump that is
>> 2-4 CFM
>> >> for every 10 gallons of tank size.
>> >>
>> >> He recommends about 1 gallon of tank size for every 25 to 45 square
>> inches
>> >> of sheet size.  But bigger is better as long as we attach a big enough
>> pump
>> >> to a large tank.  Old air compressor tanks, propane tanks, water heater
>> >> tanks, etc can work for this.
>> >>
>> >> "budget" will work for up to 1/8" thick plastic.  Perhaps more.
>> >> "performance" will form Polycarbonate and give you the best part
>> definition.
>> >> I'd like to aim for average (or better if we can find the parts cheap).
>> >>
>> >> Machine Size  -   Suggested Tank and Pump Sizes
>> >> 2 x 2 Budget         - 15 gal. tank - 5 CFM pump
>> >> 2 x 2 Average        - 18 - 20 gal. tank - 5 CFM to 7 CFM pump
>> >> 2 x 2 Performance - 25 gal. tank - 7 to 10 CFM pump
>> >>
>> >> 2 x 4 Budget 30 gal. tank - 10 CFM pump
>> >> 2 x 4 Average 35             - 40 gal. tank - 10 to 17 CFM pump
>> >> 2 x 4 Performance 45       - 50 gal. - 17 to 21 CFM pump
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Ellery Weber <EMAIL HIDDEN>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I think that, for the size platen that Rick is using (even at the
>> small
>> >>> size) a shop vac will not provide adequate suction. Also, iirc, shop
>> vacs
>> >>> quickly hit a vacuum limit; they are not really designed to create a
>> vacuum
>> >>> like what is needed for the vacu-former.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Did a quick google and found that you get much better definition and a
>> >>> faster pull with a vacuum pump w/ tanks vs a shop vac:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> http://www.build-stuff.com/001book_vacuum_forming.htm
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Chapter 3 - Vacuum Sources
>> >>>
>> >>> A simple explanation of what vacuum is and how its measured, with
>> charts
>> >>> and conversion tables. Vacuum is commonly rated in "Inches of
>> Mercury" (IN.
>> >>> HG.)  Most commercial vacuum forming is done with 25 -27 IN.HG. with a
>> >>> maximum of about 30 inches possible.
>> >>>
>> >>> Note:Vacuum cleaners only pull 4 to 6 IN.HG. out of a possible 30
>> IN.HG.
>> >>> Don't be fooled by the commercials that show them picking up bowling
>> balls.
>> >>> It doesn't matter how many horsepower, or how loud it is, or how much
>> it
>> >>> dims the lights.  Even the best "Shop Vacs"  don't pull very hard,
>> they just
>> >>> flow a lot of air!
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> From: EMAIL HIDDEN
>> >>> [mailto:EMAIL HIDDEN]
>> On Behalf
>> >>> Of Hovis Biddle
>> >>> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 1:39 PM
>> >>> To: Rick Osgood
>> >>> Cc: EMAIL HIDDEN
>> >>> Subject: Re: [EMS Discuss] Vacuum former fundraiser
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Looks awesome!
>> >>>
>> >>> I was thinking of keeping my eyes open for the parts we'll need for
>> the
>> >>> next stage.  I think I've seen some systems online that get away with
>> a shop
>> >>> vac, do we need more suction than a shop vac can pull?  If you can
>> post any
>> >>> sort of specs or whatever I'll start looking around and seeing what I
>> can
>> >>> scrounge up.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Rick Osgood <
>> EMAIL HIDDEN>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> OK I got the parts ordered!  Thanks everyone for your assistance.  In
>> case
>> >>> you are curious, this is what I ordered:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> http://build-stuff.com/FastHeatFlyer.htm
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> I purchased the 2x2 single zone.  Later if we want to upgrade we can
>> >>> purchase another one and expand the machine size pretty easily.  They
>> don't
>> >>> come assembled as you see in the photo so we will be constructing
>> them to
>> >>> look like the photo.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Rick
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Rick Osgood <
>> EMAIL HIDDEN>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks everyone!  I'll get that ordered today.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 9:36 AM, James Hukill <EMAIL HIDDEN>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Sweet!!! Can't wait to use it.
>> >>>
>> >>> Next major project we kickstarter it!!!
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Aug 26, 2013, at 9:34 AM, EMAIL HIDDEN wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I got it.  Meant to do more, actually, but just forgot.  So hit me
>> up if
>> >>>> there are unforeseen expenses.  I'll use PayPal.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -Darrell
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> It looks like I need $25 more to get these parts purchased.  Are
>> there
>> >>>>> any
>> >>>>> takers?  Let me know and I can work out a way to collect it if you
>> >>>>> don't
>> >>>>> want to use Paypal or Google wallet.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Rick
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 8:48 AM, Rick Osgood <
>> EMAIL HIDDEN>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> Thanks everyone!  Between all of us we should have enough funds to
>> >>>>>> move on
>> >>>>>> to the next step.  Mark, I'll send you my account number again.  If
>> >>>>>> anyone
>> >>>>>> else is an OCCU member, let me know and I can send you my account
>> info
>> >>>>>> too.
>> >>>>>> That's the quickest easiest way to transfer the money.  I'm
>> getting a
>> >>>>>> personal Paypal account setup now so others who have Paypal can use
>> >>>>>> that to
>> >>>>>> "gift" the funds to me.  Anyone who wants to just hand me cash in
>> >>>>>> person,
>> >>>>>> please let me know and we can just set a time to meet at EMS.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Thanks so much!
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Greg Norman <EMAIL HIDDEN>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> What's the best way to get you the $$?   Pay Pall work?
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Greg
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------
>> >>>>>>> *From:* Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN>
>> >>>>>>> *To:* discuss <EMAIL HIDDEN>
>> >>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, August 9, 2013 2:04 PM
>> >>>>>>> *Subject:* [EMS Discuss] Vacuum former fundraiser
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> We're finally nearing completion of the vacuum former.
>>  Unfortunately
>> >>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>> last couple of steps require that we spend larger chunks of money
>> in
>> >>>>>>> order
>> >>>>>>> to proceed.  I don't have enough money right now to drop on all of
>> >>>>>>> this so
>> >>>>>>> I thought I would reach out to the EMS community to see if anyone
>> >>>>>>> wanted to
>> >>>>>>> donate some money to the project.  When the vacuum former is
>> >>>>>>> completed, it
>> >>>>>>> will live at EMS and be available for all members to use.  That
>> was
>> >>>>>>> always
>> >>>>>>> the idea.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> The final three steps we have to do are:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> 1. Purchase, build and install the heating elements ($226.00)
>> >>>>>>> 2. Purchase and install the vacuum pump system (~$400-$500 if
>> >>>>>>> everything
>> >>>>>>> is bought)
>> >>>>>>> 3. Install the electrical system (Not sure on the price yet as I
>> have
>> >>>>>>> not
>> >>>>>>> researched it)
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I'm hoping to try and get the $226 together to order the heating
>> >>>>>>> element
>> >>>>>>> kits so we can work on that.  Once that is completed, I intend to
>> >>>>>>> update
>> >>>>>>> the group and see if we can organize more funding for the vacuum
>> >>>>>>> system.
>> >>>>>>> When that time comes, I'll have a more detailed plan to show what
>> it
>> >>>>>>> should specifically cost and where that money is going.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> The heating element kit really needs to be purchased from this
>> source
>> >>>>>>> as
>> >>>>>>> it's one of the most finicky parts of the build.  These kits are
>> >>>>>>> designed
>> >>>>>>> specifically for this machine.  The vacuum system we may be able
>> to
>> >>>>>>> cut
>> >>>>>>> costs if anyone has a big enough tank (or tanks) and a vacuum pump
>> >>>>>>> that can
>> >>>>>>> draw a good enough vacuum.  I'll send more details about that
>> once we
>> >>>>>>> get
>> >>>>>>> to that step in the build process.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> If you have anything you would like to donate to the cause, please
>> >>>>>>> let me
>> >>>>>>> know and we can work it out.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Thanks!
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Rick
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> > --
>> > Bob Miller                              K<bob>
>> >                                        EMAIL HIDDEN
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