[EMS Discuss] Vacuum former fundraiser

Hovis Biddle EMAIL HIDDEN
Tue Aug 27 14:47:10 PDT 2013


I like this idea a lot.  One of the fabricating techniques that I want to
play with in the future involves degassing acrylics in molds, and having a
modular vacuum source sounds pretty convenient.


On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN>wrote:

> Darrell had a good idea to setup the plumbing so we can just attach a hose
> to the vacuum former system so we don't have to actually unhook it and
> remove it from the vacuum former itself.  I think this would be acceptable
> since it would only really require the switching of a couple valves and the
> vacuum pump can be used for other experiments if needed.
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN>wrote:
>
>> I intend for this pump to be dedicated to the vacuum former.  I hate when
>> I can't use a tool because it's been taken apart or broken.  I'd prefer
>> that users will not have to reassemble the vacuum system in order to do a
>> simple vacuu-form.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:14 PM, Kevin King <EMAIL HIDDEN> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I just found this on Craigslist. Posted today. 5 two stage vacuum pump
>>> $125.
>>>
>>> http://eugene.craigslist.org/tls/4028041379.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 26, 2013, at 10:42 PM, Bob Miller <EMAIL HIDDEN> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Would this pump be usable to vacuum bag wood or fiberglass assemblies,
>>> > or would it be 100% dedicated to the vacuum former?
>>> >
>>> > See me in person and I'll contribute toward the next phase equipment.
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:07 PM, Rick Osgood <
>>> EMAIL HIDDEN> wrote:
>>> >> Below are his recommendations for vacuum systems.  We are starting
>>> with a 2
>>> >> x 2 system with the hopes of upgrading later.  Therefore we can get
>>> away
>>> >> with the smaller stuff for now if we don't mind spending money down
>>> the road
>>> >> to upgrade.  Or we go all out now and we are prepared in case we ever
>>> >> upgrade the machine.
>>> >>
>>> >> It sounds like we should use either a Piston Pump or a Rotary Vane
>>> Pump.  A
>>> >> piston pump is basically just like an air compressor hooked up
>>> backwards.
>>> >> He says they can pull 20 to 25 inches of vacuum.  A rotary vane pump
>>> can
>>> >> pull between 24 and 28 inches depending on how much you spend
>>> basically.  He
>>> >> recommends you get a pump that pulls at least 25 inches of vacuum.
>>>  27 to 28
>>> >> is better and 29 is "outstanding".  Also, you want a pump that can
>>> get to
>>> >>> 25 inches in under 3 minutes.  The longer it's on the more annoying
>>> it is
>>> >> and you risk over-working the pump.  He says to  get a pump that is
>>> 2-4 CFM
>>> >> for every 10 gallons of tank size.
>>> >>
>>> >> He recommends about 1 gallon of tank size for every 25 to 45 square
>>> inches
>>> >> of sheet size.  But bigger is better as long as we attach a big
>>> enough pump
>>> >> to a large tank.  Old air compressor tanks, propane tanks, water
>>> heater
>>> >> tanks, etc can work for this.
>>> >>
>>> >> "budget" will work for up to 1/8" thick plastic.  Perhaps more.
>>> >> "performance" will form Polycarbonate and give you the best part
>>> definition.
>>> >> I'd like to aim for average (or better if we can find the parts
>>> cheap).
>>> >>
>>> >> Machine Size  -   Suggested Tank and Pump Sizes
>>> >> 2 x 2 Budget         - 15 gal. tank - 5 CFM pump
>>> >> 2 x 2 Average        - 18 - 20 gal. tank - 5 CFM to 7 CFM pump
>>> >> 2 x 2 Performance - 25 gal. tank - 7 to 10 CFM pump
>>> >>
>>> >> 2 x 4 Budget 30 gal. tank - 10 CFM pump
>>> >> 2 x 4 Average 35             - 40 gal. tank - 10 to 17 CFM pump
>>> >> 2 x 4 Performance 45       - 50 gal. - 17 to 21 CFM pump
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Ellery Weber <EMAIL HIDDEN
>>> >
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I think that, for the size platen that Rick is using (even at the
>>> small
>>> >>> size) a shop vac will not provide adequate suction. Also, iirc, shop
>>> vacs
>>> >>> quickly hit a vacuum limit; they are not really designed to create a
>>> vacuum
>>> >>> like what is needed for the vacu-former.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Did a quick google and found that you get much better definition and
>>> a
>>> >>> faster pull with a vacuum pump w/ tanks vs a shop vac:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> http://www.build-stuff.com/001book_vacuum_forming.htm
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Chapter 3 - Vacuum Sources
>>> >>>
>>> >>> A simple explanation of what vacuum is and how its measured, with
>>> charts
>>> >>> and conversion tables. Vacuum is commonly rated in "Inches of
>>> Mercury" (IN.
>>> >>> HG.)  Most commercial vacuum forming is done with 25 -27 IN.HG. with
>>> a
>>> >>> maximum of about 30 inches possible.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Note:Vacuum cleaners only pull 4 to 6 IN.HG. out of a possible 30
>>> IN.HG.
>>> >>> Don't be fooled by the commercials that show them picking up bowling
>>> balls.
>>> >>> It doesn't matter how many horsepower, or how loud it is, or how
>>> much it
>>> >>> dims the lights.  Even the best "Shop Vacs"  don't pull very hard,
>>> they just
>>> >>> flow a lot of air!
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> From: EMAIL HIDDEN
>>> >>> [mailto:EMAIL HIDDEN]
>>> On Behalf
>>> >>> Of Hovis Biddle
>>> >>> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 1:39 PM
>>> >>> To: Rick Osgood
>>> >>> Cc: EMAIL HIDDEN
>>> >>> Subject: Re: [EMS Discuss] Vacuum former fundraiser
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Looks awesome!
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I was thinking of keeping my eyes open for the parts we'll need for
>>> the
>>> >>> next stage.  I think I've seen some systems online that get away
>>> with a shop
>>> >>> vac, do we need more suction than a shop vac can pull?  If you can
>>> post any
>>> >>> sort of specs or whatever I'll start looking around and seeing what
>>> I can
>>> >>> scrounge up.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Rick Osgood <
>>> EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> OK I got the parts ordered!  Thanks everyone for your assistance.
>>>  In case
>>> >>> you are curious, this is what I ordered:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> http://build-stuff.com/FastHeatFlyer.htm
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I purchased the 2x2 single zone.  Later if we want to upgrade we can
>>> >>> purchase another one and expand the machine size pretty easily.
>>>  They don't
>>> >>> come assembled as you see in the photo so we will be constructing
>>> them to
>>> >>> look like the photo.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Rick
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Rick Osgood <
>>> EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Thanks everyone!  I'll get that ordered today.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 9:36 AM, James Hukill <EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Sweet!!! Can't wait to use it.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Next major project we kickstarter it!!!
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Aug 26, 2013, at 9:34 AM, EMAIL HIDDEN wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I got it.  Meant to do more, actually, but just forgot.  So hit me
>>> up if
>>> >>>> there are unforeseen expenses.  I'll use PayPal.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> -Darrell
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> It looks like I need $25 more to get these parts purchased.  Are
>>> there
>>> >>>>> any
>>> >>>>> takers?  Let me know and I can work out a way to collect it if you
>>> >>>>> don't
>>> >>>>> want to use Paypal or Google wallet.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Rick
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 8:48 AM, Rick Osgood <
>>> EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>> >>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Thanks everyone!  Between all of us we should have enough funds to
>>> >>>>>> move on
>>> >>>>>> to the next step.  Mark, I'll send you my account number again.
>>>  If
>>> >>>>>> anyone
>>> >>>>>> else is an OCCU member, let me know and I can send you my account
>>> info
>>> >>>>>> too.
>>> >>>>>> That's the quickest easiest way to transfer the money.  I'm
>>> getting a
>>> >>>>>> personal Paypal account setup now so others who have Paypal can
>>> use
>>> >>>>>> that to
>>> >>>>>> "gift" the funds to me.  Anyone who wants to just hand me cash in
>>> >>>>>> person,
>>> >>>>>> please let me know and we can just set a time to meet at EMS.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Thanks so much!
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Greg Norman <EMAIL HIDDEN
>>> >
>>> >>>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> What's the best way to get you the $$?   Pay Pall work?
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Greg
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>> >>>>>>> *From:* Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>> >>>>>>> *To:* discuss <EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>> >>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, August 9, 2013 2:04 PM
>>> >>>>>>> *Subject:* [EMS Discuss] Vacuum former fundraiser
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> We're finally nearing completion of the vacuum former.
>>>  Unfortunately
>>> >>>>>>> the
>>> >>>>>>> last couple of steps require that we spend larger chunks of
>>> money in
>>> >>>>>>> order
>>> >>>>>>> to proceed.  I don't have enough money right now to drop on all
>>> of
>>> >>>>>>> this so
>>> >>>>>>> I thought I would reach out to the EMS community to see if anyone
>>> >>>>>>> wanted to
>>> >>>>>>> donate some money to the project.  When the vacuum former is
>>> >>>>>>> completed, it
>>> >>>>>>> will live at EMS and be available for all members to use.  That
>>> was
>>> >>>>>>> always
>>> >>>>>>> the idea.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> The final three steps we have to do are:
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> 1. Purchase, build and install the heating elements ($226.00)
>>> >>>>>>> 2. Purchase and install the vacuum pump system (~$400-$500 if
>>> >>>>>>> everything
>>> >>>>>>> is bought)
>>> >>>>>>> 3. Install the electrical system (Not sure on the price yet as I
>>> have
>>> >>>>>>> not
>>> >>>>>>> researched it)
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> I'm hoping to try and get the $226 together to order the heating
>>> >>>>>>> element
>>> >>>>>>> kits so we can work on that.  Once that is completed, I intend to
>>> >>>>>>> update
>>> >>>>>>> the group and see if we can organize more funding for the vacuum
>>> >>>>>>> system.
>>> >>>>>>> When that time comes, I'll have a more detailed plan to show
>>> what it
>>> >>>>>>> should specifically cost and where that money is going.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> The heating element kit really needs to be purchased from this
>>> source
>>> >>>>>>> as
>>> >>>>>>> it's one of the most finicky parts of the build.  These kits are
>>> >>>>>>> designed
>>> >>>>>>> specifically for this machine.  The vacuum system we may be able
>>> to
>>> >>>>>>> cut
>>> >>>>>>> costs if anyone has a big enough tank (or tanks) and a vacuum
>>> pump
>>> >>>>>>> that can
>>> >>>>>>> draw a good enough vacuum.  I'll send more details about that
>>> once we
>>> >>>>>>> get
>>> >>>>>>> to that step in the build process.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> If you have anything you would like to donate to the cause,
>>> please
>>> >>>>>>> let me
>>> >>>>>>> know and we can work it out.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Thanks!
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Rick
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>> >>>>>>> EMAIL HIDDEN
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
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>>> >>>>
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>>> >>
>>> >>
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>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Bob Miller                              K<bob>
>>> >                                        EMAIL HIDDEN
>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>
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