[EMS Discuss] Vacuum former fundraiser

Kevin King EMAIL HIDDEN
Tue Aug 27 16:23:54 PDT 2013


+1

Or for a vacuum chamber for near space balloon equipment testing.


-Kevin



________________________________
 From: Hovis Biddle <EMAIL HIDDEN>
To: Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN> 
Cc: discuss <EMAIL HIDDEN>; Ellery Weber <EMAIL HIDDEN> 
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: [EMS Discuss] Vacuum former fundraiser
 


I like this idea a lot.  One of the fabricating techniques that I want to play with in the future involves degassing acrylics in molds, and having a modular vacuum source sounds pretty convenient.




On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN> wrote:

Darrell had a good idea to setup the plumbing so we can just attach a hose to the vacuum former system so we don't have to actually unhook it and remove it from the vacuum former itself.  I think this would be acceptable since it would only really require the switching of a couple valves and the vacuum pump can be used for other experiments if needed.
>
>
>
>On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN> wrote:
>
>I intend for this pump to be dedicated to the vacuum former.  I hate when I can't use a tool because it's been taken apart or broken.  I'd prefer that users will not have to reassemble the vacuum system in order to do a simple vacuu-form.
>>
>>
>>
>>On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:14 PM, Kevin King <EMAIL HIDDEN> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I just found this on Craigslist. Posted today. 5 two stage vacuum pump $125.
>>>
>>>http://eugene.craigslist.org/tls/4028041379.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Aug 26, 2013, at 10:42 PM, Bob Miller <EMAIL HIDDEN> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Would this pump be usable to vacuum bag wood or fiberglass assemblies,
>>>> or would it be 100% dedicated to the vacuum former?
>>>>
>>>> See me in person and I'll contribute toward the next phase equipment.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:07 PM, Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN> wrote:
>>>>> Below are his recommendations for vacuum systems.  We are starting with a 2
>>>>> x 2 system with the hopes of upgrading later.  Therefore we can get away
>>>>> with the smaller stuff for now if we don't mind spending money down the road
>>>>> to upgrade.  Or we go all out now and we are prepared in case we ever
>>>>> upgrade the machine.
>>>>>
>>>>> It sounds like we should use either a Piston Pump or a Rotary Vane Pump.  A
>>>>> piston pump is basically just like an air compressor hooked up backwards.
>>>>> He says they can pull 20 to 25 inches of vacuum.  A rotary vane pump can
>>>>> pull between 24 and 28 inches depending on how much you spend basically.  He
>>>>> recommends you get a pump that pulls at least 25 inches of vacuum.  27 to 28
>>>>> is better and 29 is "outstanding".  Also, you want a pump that can get to
>>>>>> 25 inches in under 3 minutes.  The longer it's on the more annoying it is
>>>>> and you risk over-working the pump.  He says to  get a pump that is 2-4 CFM
>>>>> for every 10 gallons of tank size.
>>>>>
>>>>> He recommends about 1 gallon of tank size for every 25 to 45 square inches
>>>>> of sheet size.  But bigger is better as long as we attach a big enough pump
>>>>> to a large tank.  Old air compressor tanks, propane tanks, water heater
>>>>> tanks, etc can work for this.
>>>>>
>>>>> "budget" will work for up to 1/8" thick plastic.  Perhaps more.
>>>>> "performance" will form Polycarbonate and give you the best part definition.
>>>>> I'd like to aim for average (or better if we can find the parts cheap).
>>>>>
>>>>> Machine Size  -   Suggested Tank and Pump Sizes
>>>>> 2 x 2 Budget         - 15 gal. tank - 5 CFM pump
>>>>> 2 x 2 Average        - 18 - 20 gal. tank - 5 CFM to 7 CFM pump
>>>>> 2 x 2 Performance - 25 gal. tank - 7 to 10 CFM pump
>>>>>
>>>>> 2 x 4 Budget 30 gal. tank - 10 CFM pump
>>>>> 2 x 4 Average 35             - 40 gal. tank - 10 to 17 CFM pump
>>>>> 2 x 4 Performance 45       - 50 gal. - 17 to 21 CFM pump
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Ellery Weber <EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think that, for the size platen that Rick is using (even at the small
>>>>>> size) a shop vac will not provide adequate suction. Also, iirc, shop vacs
>>>>>> quickly hit a vacuum limit; they are not really designed to create a vacuum
>>>>>> like what is needed for the vacu-former.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did a quick google and found that you get much better definition and a
>>>>>> faster pull with a vacuum pump w/ tanks vs a shop vac:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.build-stuff.com/001book_vacuum_forming.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chapter 3 - Vacuum Sources
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A simple explanation of what vacuum is and how its measured, with charts
>>>>>> and conversion tables. Vacuum is commonly rated in "Inches of Mercury" (IN.
>>>>>> HG.)  Most commercial vacuum forming is done with 25 -27 IN.HG. with a
>>>>>> maximum of about 30 inches possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Note:Vacuum cleaners only pull 4 to 6 IN.HG. out of a possible 30 IN.HG.
>>>>>> Don't be fooled by the commercials that show them picking up bowling balls.
>>>>>> It doesn't matter how many horsepower, or how loud it is, or how much it
>>>>>> dims the lights.  Even the best "Shop Vacs"  don't pull very hard, they just
>>>>>> flow a lot of air!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: EMAIL HIDDEN
>>>>>> [mailto:EMAIL HIDDEN] On Behalf
>>>>>> Of Hovis Biddle
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 1:39 PM
>>>>>> To: Rick Osgood
>>>>>> Cc: EMAIL HIDDEN
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [EMS Discuss] Vacuum former fundraiser
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looks awesome!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was thinking of keeping my eyes open for the parts we'll need for the
>>>>>> next stage.  I think I've seen some systems online that get away with a shop
>>>>>> vac, do we need more suction than a shop vac can pull?  If you can post any
>>>>>> sort of specs or whatever I'll start looking around and seeing what I can
>>>>>> scrounge up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK I got the parts ordered!  Thanks everyone for your assistance.  In case
>>>>>> you are curious, this is what I ordered:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://build-stuff.com/FastHeatFlyer.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I purchased the 2x2 single zone.  Later if we want to upgrade we can
>>>>>> purchase another one and expand the machine size pretty easily.  They don't
>>>>>> come assembled as you see in the photo so we will be constructing them to
>>>>>> look like the photo.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rick
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks everyone!  I'll get that ordered today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 9:36 AM, James Hukill <EMAIL HIDDEN> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sweet!!! Can't wait to use it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Next major project we kickstarter it!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 26, 2013, at 9:34 AM, EMAIL HIDDEN wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I got it.  Meant to do more, actually, but just forgot.  So hit me up if
>>>>>>> there are unforeseen expenses.  I'll use PayPal.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Darrell
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It looks like I need $25 more to get these parts purchased.  Are there
>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>> takers?  Let me know and I can work out a way to collect it if you
>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>> want to use Paypal or Google wallet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rick
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 8:48 AM, Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks everyone!  Between all of us we should have enough funds to
>>>>>>>>> move on
>>>>>>>>> to the next step.  Mark, I'll send you my account number again.  If
>>>>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>>>>> else is an OCCU member, let me know and I can send you my account info
>>>>>>>>> too.
>>>>>>>>> That's the quickest easiest way to transfer the money.  I'm getting a
>>>>>>>>> personal Paypal account setup now so others who have Paypal can use
>>>>>>>>> that to
>>>>>>>>> "gift" the funds to me.  Anyone who wants to just hand me cash in
>>>>>>>>> person,
>>>>>>>>> please let me know and we can just set a time to meet at EMS.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Greg Norman <EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What's the best way to get you the $$?   Pay Pall work?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Greg
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Rick Osgood <EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>>>>> *To:* discuss <EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, August 9, 2013 2:04 PM
>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* [EMS Discuss] Vacuum former fundraiser
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We're finally nearing completion of the vacuum former.  Unfortunately
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> last couple of steps require that we spend larger chunks of money in
>>>>>>>>>> order
>>>>>>>>>> to proceed.  I don't have enough money right now to drop on all of
>>>>>>>>>> this so
>>>>>>>>>> I thought I would reach out to the EMS community to see if anyone
>>>>>>>>>> wanted to
>>>>>>>>>> donate some money to the project.  When the vacuum former is
>>>>>>>>>> completed, it
>>>>>>>>>> will live at EMS and be available for all members to use.  That was
>>>>>>>>>> always
>>>>>>>>>> the idea.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The final three steps we have to do are:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1. Purchase, build and install the heating elements ($226.00)
>>>>>>>>>> 2. Purchase and install the vacuum pump system (~$400-$500 if
>>>>>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>>>>> is bought)
>>>>>>>>>> 3. Install the electrical system (Not sure on the price yet as I have
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> researched it)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm hoping to try and get the $226 together to order the heating
>>>>>>>>>> element
>>>>>>>>>> kits so we can work on that.  Once that is completed, I intend to
>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>> the group and see if we can organize more funding for the vacuum
>>>>>>>>>> system.
>>>>>>>>>> When that time comes, I'll have a more detailed plan to show what it
>>>>>>>>>> should specifically cost and where that money is going.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The heating element kit really needs to be purchased from this source
>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>> it's one of the most finicky parts of the build.  These kits are
>>>>>>>>>> designed
>>>>>>>>>> specifically for this machine.  The vacuum system we may be able to
>>>>>>>>>> cut
>>>>>>>>>> costs if anyone has a big enough tank (or tanks) and a vacuum pump
>>>>>>>>>> that can
>>>>>>>>>> draw a good enough vacuum.  I'll send more details about that once we
>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>> to that step in the build process.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you have anything you would like to donate to the cause, please
>>>>>>>>>> let me
>>>>>>>>>> know and we can work it out.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Rick
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Bob Miller                              K<bob>
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