[EMS Discuss] discussion on the EMS Policies - Key Access

Wed Mar 6 08:59:46 PST 2013

I think Kassie's point about leaving EMS room not to be sued is very
important. I also agree that a large window allows a disgruntled member too
much time to steal/sabotage/etc.  I feel like the best compromise would
just be adding a statement that a member who's key has been revoked can be
accompanied by a board member to claim their stuff.

Seems like that's the legal room EMS needs, and it means that members don't
have to be afraid of losing their things.
On Mar 6, 2013 1:40 AM, "Kassie" <EMAIL HIDDEN> wrote:

> I believe that all of these recommendation have their place and are great
> guidelines to follow.  I do have an issue with them being set in stone as
> they invite legal troubles.
> Revoking key privilege is a big decision and not one taken lightly.  What
> we are talking about is the boards abilities to deal with SERIOUS problems.
>  It is the board responsibility to do due diligence, but what that entail
> depends on the problem and the consequences.
> 1 and 3 are problems if we are protecting ourselves from the unlikely
> event that we believe that theft, vandalism or personal safety are at risk.
> Option 1
> Created a retribution window from informing opening of the investigation
> till the board meets.  In some cases, this could create a problem.  Most
> cases it should not.  Also it may not a practical, what if we can not get a
> hold of a person and the ramifications could threaten legal action against
> Ems.
> Option 3
> The 15 day window between the boards decision and the start of the
> suspension could also create problems.  What if someone is doing illegal
> thing with our space or our tools.  Or if a person becomes emotionally and
> deliberately abusive to members.  Or if a member is use up all public
> resources and costing ems and other members real money beyond what is being
> brought without even doing projects. Should Ems have a policy in place to
> say "this already determined bad behavior is free to continue for 15 days".
>  Particular since it 's our personal policy to talk to the person about
> concerns before hand.
> Option 2
> The option badly written.  It is forcing the would valid to do all the
> work.  This is a problem because "valid" is different for different for
> different people.  Is I don't like you valid? I bet you that someone always
> thinks what they are doing is valid.  So of we put it on someone has to
> decide what valid is.  If we put it in, it would be us doing what we
> already do!   Our job as a board is to decided the best action.  In another
> way of wording it the most valid course of action!
> In short, Ionel wants to make sure we are not subject to unfair treatment.
>  I know it isn't goal to try to be fair.
> The current wording is "The BOD may suspend a members' key privileges for
> any reason, and may or may not chose to review it later. "
> These words have a goal to make sure Ems doesn't get sued.  Suspension is
> traumatic and it the type of action that would increase our risk.  A
> suspension is bad for the group and dangerous as is.  I believe the danger
> inherit to the action is a suitable deterrent, but maybe something
> different might work better.
> Kassie
> Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 6, 2013, at 12:09 AM, Ionel Pusca <EMAIL HIDDEN> wrote:
> This is a survey on the EMS Policies, Key Access - please send your
> feedback to the discus mailing list.
> http://eugenemakerspace.com/wiki/Sites/EmsPolicy
> "The BOD may suspend a members' key privileges for any reason, and may or
> may not chose to review it later. "
> Options could be the 1-3, or a combination of them, or any other
> suggestion.
> 1) requiring the EMS board to check with the associate EMS member before
> making a key suspension decision  (the person would know better his/her own
> facts)
> 2) replace with ".. for any VALID reason .. "
> 3) set a notice, 15 days or less, like for the membership suspension, to
> verify the information.
> "The board shall give the member at least 15 days' prior notice of the
> proposed suspension or termination and the reasons for the proposed
> suspension or termination"
> Otherwise there is the risk that one could discuss a gossip or a false
> information and may use the EMS board to suspend the key right away and to
> limit access, causing the property of another to be withheld from the
> person.
> Ionel Pusca
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