[EMS Discuss] discussion on the EMS Policies - Key Access
Wed Mar 6 22:13:15 PST 2013
Well said, Kassie, I also agree with your explanation for the current
language. Not to argue with Hovis' point, but also noting that open house
night, twice a week, means that anyone who lacks key access still has a
reasonable way to retrieve anything that person has left in the shop.
On Mar 6, 2013 9:00 AM, "Hovis Biddle" <EMAIL HIDDEN> wrote:
> I think Kassie's point about leaving EMS room not to be sued is very
> important. I also agree that a large window allows a disgruntled member too
> much time to steal/sabotage/etc. I feel like the best compromise would
> just be adding a statement that a member who's key has been revoked can be
> accompanied by a board member to claim their stuff.
> Seems like that's the legal room EMS needs, and it means that members
> don't have to be afraid of losing their things.
> On Mar 6, 2013 1:40 AM, "Kassie" <EMAIL HIDDEN> wrote:
>> I believe that all of these recommendation have their place and are great
>> guidelines to follow. I do have an issue with them being set in stone as
>> they invite legal troubles.
>> Revoking key privilege is a big decision and not one taken lightly. What
>> we are talking about is the boards abilities to deal with SERIOUS problems.
>> It is the board responsibility to do due diligence, but what that entail
>> depends on the problem and the consequences.
>> 1 and 3 are problems if we are protecting ourselves from the unlikely
>> event that we believe that theft, vandalism or personal safety are at risk.
>> Option 1
>> Created a retribution window from informing opening of the investigation
>> till the board meets. In some cases, this could create a problem. Most
>> cases it should not. Also it may not a practical, what if we can not get a
>> hold of a person and the ramifications could threaten legal action against
>> Option 3
>> The 15 day window between the boards decision and the start of the
>> suspension could also create problems. What if someone is doing illegal
>> thing with our space or our tools. Or if a person becomes emotionally and
>> deliberately abusive to members. Or if a member is use up all public
>> resources and costing ems and other members real money beyond what is being
>> brought without even doing projects. Should Ems have a policy in place to
>> say "this already determined bad behavior is free to continue for 15 days".
>> Particular since it 's our personal policy to talk to the person about
>> concerns before hand.
>> Option 2
>> The option badly written. It is forcing the would valid to do all the
>> work. This is a problem because "valid" is different for different for
>> different people. Is I don't like you valid? I bet you that someone always
>> thinks what they are doing is valid. So of we put it on someone has to
>> decide what valid is. If we put it in, it would be us doing what we
>> already do! Our job as a board is to decided the best action. In another
>> way of wording it the most valid course of action!
>> In short, Ionel wants to make sure we are not subject to unfair
>> treatment. I know it isn't goal to try to be fair.
>> The current wording is "The BOD may suspend a members' key privileges
>> for any reason, and may or may not chose to review it later. "
>> These words have a goal to make sure Ems doesn't get sued. Suspension is
>> traumatic and it the type of action that would increase our risk. A
>> suspension is bad for the group and dangerous as is. I believe the danger
>> inherit to the action is a suitable deterrent, but maybe something
>> different might work better.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> On Mar 6, 2013, at 12:09 AM, Ionel Pusca <EMAIL HIDDEN> wrote:
>> This is a survey on the EMS Policies, Key Access - please send your
>> feedback to the discus mailing list.
>> "The BOD may suspend a members' key privileges for any reason, and may or
>> may not chose to review it later. "
>> Options could be the 1-3, or a combination of them, or any other
>> 1) requiring the EMS board to check with the associate EMS member before
>> making a key suspension decision (the person would know better his/her own
>> 2) replace with ".. for any VALID reason .. "
>> 3) set a notice, 15 days or less, like for the membership suspension, to
>> verify the information.
>> "The board shall give the member at least 15 days' prior notice of the
>> proposed suspension or termination and the reasons for the proposed
>> suspension or termination"
>> Otherwise there is the risk that one could discuss a gossip or a false
>> information and may use the EMS board to suspend the key right away and to
>> limit access, causing the property of another to be withheld from the
>> Ionel Pusca
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