[EMS Discuss] New Space Budget Poll

Mr. Clif EMAIL HIDDEN
Wed Sep 18 10:05:03 PDT 2013


Hi Gang,

Well it seems like we have collected some viable new space 
possibilities! Though they are a bit of a stretch for us financially. I 
think we should take a quick poll and see if we can actually afford any 
of them. :-) This poll can't be anonymous because we need to know who is 
signing up for what.

I would like to suggest that everyone to send an email to Board with how 
much extra you are willing to pay for each place. Also if you would like 
to rent some extra floor space just for your projects, or an office (if 
one is available) how much you are willing to pay for how much space. 
This kinda boils down to voting with your dollars, though the board will 
have to do the final checks with the land lord and city to see if 
everything will work.

You can choose any place listed on our new spaces page here:
https://www.eugenemakerspace.com/wiki/Sites/NewSpaceSearch

However, I would suggest that the main two we are considering are the 
1010 Grant, and W 7th locations. I would also be ok with the 175 Danebo 
place, but pick whatever ones you like, and give us the following info 
for each one you're interested in:

Your name
The place
How much total per month you would pay us to be there until our 
membership grows to be sufficient to         cover it. This would be a 
maximum only and will gradually diminish as we get new members. It     
             includes your dues, so $25 would be no change.
What extra personal space in Sqft you would be willing to pay extra for. 
and how much. Please include             notes on this. Eg. is it 
storage, work, or office space?

You can also place a negative "vote" for a space by saying you would pay 
$0.00 thereby canceling your membership.

Ok I will start.

Name: Clif
1010 Grant: $100
W 7th:          $100
175 S Danebo: $75 (It's a bit out there)
and I don't need any extra personal space right now. :-)

     Ciao!
     Clif

Mr. Clif wrote:
> Hi gang,
>
> The nice lady at the city planning office called me this morning with 
> some more info:
>
> The City planing office would like to put us in the Specialized 
> education category. That would allow us to chose from many zones such 
> as C2, C3, I1, I2, or I3. As you might imagine these are essentially 
> all the non-residential zones in Eugene.
>
> if we need to change anything in the building that requires a building 
> permit then that might trigger a change of use permit or the resulting 
> review process. This would probably result in a change to the number 
> of vehicle or bicycle parking spots we need.
>
> Though as a Specialized education org we need to have one parking 
> space for every 3.5 "students", and one bicycle spot for every 5 
> "students" who are there on average during a open hack night. Now 25% 
> of these bicycle parking spots must be for full time "students" or 
> "faculty" a full time parking slot is dry and lockable.
>
> If we grow over the first break point which I think is 50 members, 
> then we might also need to talk with public works. based on our use 
> and number of students. One bathroom would probably not be enough. 
> Same goes for building exits etc...
>
> So far this all sounds fairly reasonable and it sounds like they want 
> to be helpful. I'm not as sure about the category they put us in but I 
> guess it works for now, and dovetails nicely with what Kiki is doing.
>
>     Clif
>
> Greg Norman wrote:
>> I like this analysis.
>>   Greg Norman
>>
>> From: Mr. Clif<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>> To: Rick Osgood<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>> Cc: "EMAIL HIDDEN"<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 4:28 PM
>> Subject: Re: [EMS Discuss] Help us find a new home!
>>
>>
>> Wow Rick thats quite an essay! :-) Thanks for taking the time to put all
>> that down on paper.
>>
>> I just was down at the city planner's office and the lady there gave me
>> lots of good info. Of course some of it was geared to get people like us
>> to file for permits so they can earn some more money, so with that in
>> mind here is what I learned...
>>
>> That nose ordinance applies pretty much everywhere, specifically at both
>> these places. After 10 PM anyone could call in a complaint, and I
>> believe that if it's the second one in a year that they can fine you.
>> The first time you can probably get away with saying that it was the
>> last renter before you that did it. The second time would be your first
>> time, and then the third time (within a year) you would get fined. They
>> start about $450 for the first one and $800 something for the second
>> according to the lady there. So you really don't want to be close to
>> someone who complains.
>>
>> Parking is another issue, they want to see so many parking spaces per
>> some amount of sqft of floor space (that could be occupied by a person)
>> so space that is used only for storage doesn't count. They are not sure
>> how they would label us but if we were artists then its about one
>> parking slot for about every $250 / sqft. If we are manufacturing then
>> its one for every 550 sqft. Bigger numbers are better because you need
>> fewer parking spaces, and if you have them then in the cities eyes we
>> arn't breaking any laws. Now the 1010 Grant space dosn't "Own" all the
>> slots in front of it. The city has some of those as part of the easement
>> so only three are actually ours. Though I don't really think anyone
>> would complain if we were just parking in that area in front. If there
>> were lots of cars in front of houses then yes it would be a problem. The
>> W 7th property does have lots of parking even in the cities eyes.
>>
>> I agree with Rick that we want to build our community, that's one reason
>> we're moving. If we are successful and continue growing, then eventually
>> we will have to move again. The question is will that time be forced on
>> us by the city or at our own choosing?
>>
>> PS: we can find out a lot of this info on http://rlid.org/however it
>> costs a lot darn! :-(
>>
>>      Clif
>>
>> Rick Osgood wrote:
>>> I'm not sure we should count the noise ordinance thing until after 
>>> you hear
>>> back and find out if it actually applies.  When considering 
>>> locations, I
>>> think it's important to consider the purpose of Eugene Maker Space.  
>>> Each
>>> member may have a different opinion about what purpose(s) we have, and
>>> which are more important.  But here is what I think EMS's goals 
>>> should be,
>>> in order of what I think is most important to least important (It's 
>>> a close
>>> tie between all three though).
>>>
>>> 1) Strive to provide resources (space and tools) for people to build
>>> anything they can imagine.
>>> 2) Build a fun and healthy community of makers/hackers who hang out, 
>>> work
>>> together, share knowledge.
>>> 3) Work within the local community (Eugene/Springfield) to help promote
>>> making, engineering, etc.
>>>
>>> I really like both spaces but neither are perfect.  With those three
>>> missions in mind, if I had to choose one space I think I would 
>>> actually end
>>> up choosing the 1010 grant space.  Here's why.  The W 7th space really
>>> helps us with Mission #1.  But in terms of Mission #2, I don't think it
>>> puts us in any better situation than we are now, and personally I 
>>> think we
>>> need to improve our community.  I think the Grant space will help us
>>> improve both #1 and #2.  It may not help out #1 as much as the W 7th 
>>> space,
>>> but I think it has a better balance between the two and regardless 
>>> we'll be
>>> better off with than we are now on both fronts.  I think it is better
>>> suited to build our community, and that's something we REALLY need 
>>> if we
>>> want EMS to grow into a bigger space.  I fear that the W 7th space 
>>> will be
>>> a great workshop but it won't promote the community hangout aspect we
>>> really need to improve.  As for Mission #3, I think the Grant space 
>>> in it's
>>> current form is better suited for this too.  With separate quiet 
>>> rooms we
>>> will be better able to host events at EMS or even to allow other
>>> organizations to hold events within our own space.  It also has a nice
>>> kitchen area we can use when hosting events to keep food and drink 
>>> separate
>>> from the dirty shop.  These things can really help us make strong 
>>> ties with
>>> the rest of the Eugene community.
>>>
>>> That's the bottom line for me.  For more details about what things I 
>>> like
>>> and dislike about each space, keep reading.  But the important bit 
>>> is above
>>> so if you are already bored feel free to stop here ;)
>>>
>>> The W 7th space is a good option but we'd have to spend time and 
>>> money (who
>>> has either?) to fix the gate issues so our members can get in 
>>> off-hours.
>>>    We also only have one small office which means if we want divided 
>>> space we
>>> need to build it ourselves (more time and money).  I fear that one 
>>> reason
>>> we don't retain new people is because they walk into our current 
>>> space and
>>> they are immediately placed into a dirty workshop environment.  
>>> There's no
>>> clean or quiet area for them.  We can't ease them into the space.  
>>> The W
>>> 7th space is the exact same way.  Also, while I love the feeling of 
>>> high
>>> ceilings, the huge space will be very inefficient to heat.  If we had
>>> smaller hang out rooms to compensate we might be OK, but it's tough 
>>> to want
>>> to go down to EMS on open hack night when I know I'm going to just sit
>>> around and freeze.
>>>
>>> The 1010 Grant space is not in a very good location, in that there 
>>> is an
>>> apartment literally on top of it and a house 3 feet from the main wall.
>>>    Also the divisions are laid out strangely and some of the rooms 
>>> are likely
>>> too small to be useful to us.  While we do have permission to move 
>>> walls,
>>> it will take more time and money to fix.  Plus the electrical stuff 
>>> we move
>>> has to be up to code.  It has a good sized bay door, but it's not at 
>>> street
>>> level so we'll have to build a big ramp to get vehicles in.  More 
>>> time and
>>> money spent.
>>>
>>> With all the negative things out of the way, here's a simple list of 
>>> all
>>> the things I really like about each space.
>>>
>>> W 7th:
>>> - Big ceilings and open space make me feel like I can build anything
>>> - Pretty good parking
>>> - Right next to Home Depot (for supplies and for advertising events)
>>> - 16 foot roll up door to get big projects in and out
>>>
>>> 1010 Grant:
>>> - Space is already divided into offices and work space
>>> - Has an entry area that may be more welcoming to new visitors 
>>> rather than
>>> dumping them right into a dirty shop
>>> - Probably enough street parking
>>> - Park right across the street
>>> - Right off West 11th
>>> - Kitchen area
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Mr. Clif<EMAIL HIDDEN>   wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm sorry, I don't really know which one I would like better, and 
>>>> yes I
>>>> might have subconsciously worded it that way. However those are the 
>>>> facts
>>>> as I know them. I do have a call into the planning department to 
>>>> double
>>>> check the noise ordnance.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway they have a lot of simularities I know you like 1010 Grant, and
>>>> Darrel likes W 7th. I could be happy with either I think.
>>>>
>>>>        What about the rest of us?
>>>>
>>>>        Clif
>>>>
>>>> Cord Slatton wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sounds like you are pushing hard for the w. 7th....? That email 
>>>>> you just
>>>>> sent is worded to push people towards it.
>>>>> On Sep 16, 2013 1:13 PM, "Mr. Clif"<EMAIL HIDDEN>   wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>    So I think we should take an informal poll on how we feel about 
>>>>> our two
>>>>>> top spaces, which seem to be the W 7th, and 1010 Grant spaces.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They are the same square footage, and probably around the same 
>>>>>> price, but
>>>>>> the 1010 Grant space is carved up in to lots of office space, and 
>>>>>> may
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> a nose limit after ten. The insulation is probably good on both
>>>>>> buildings.
>>>>>> The W7th one has gas heat and high ceilings, and the 1010 Grant 
>>>>>> space has
>>>>>> lower ceilings but electric? heat So would the heating bill be a 
>>>>>> wash? We
>>>>>> have some example amounts for the W 7th place at least. The 1010 
>>>>>> grant
>>>>>> space may have more walk by traffic but not sure if it's the 
>>>>>> people you
>>>>>> want. The W 7th place is across the street from Home Depot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you guys think? Should we take a straw poll?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        Clif
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mr. Clif wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Hi Gang,
>>>>>>> I got the rest of the questions answered. here they are:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1010 Grant Qs
>>>>>>>        Can we move walls? -- Yes.
>>>>>>>        Maximum repair costs we would be responsible for? -- Yes 
>>>>>>> we can cap
>>>>>>> it, eg. Negotiable.
>>>>>>>            Modified Gross; Would consider triple net as a way of 
>>>>>>> reducing
>>>>>>> costs to both parties.
>>>>>>>        Will it remain up for sale? -- Only until someone rents it.
>>>>>>>        What are the options on the lease term? -- 1 year; would 
>>>>>>> consider 6
>>>>>>> mo.
>>>>>>>        How is it zoned? -- S-C/C-2 (From Rick)
>>>>>>>        Thoughts on late night noise limits? -- It has filled 
>>>>>>> Cinder block
>>>>>>> construction.
>>>>>>>            If you strategically place the noisy tools it might 
>>>>>>> help.
>>>>>>>            The Realtor believes the 10 PM noise ordinance does 
>>>>>>> apply. We
>>>>>>> need to double check on this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mr. Clif wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    Hi Gang,
>>>>>>>> Well I composed my list of questions and called them today but the
>>>>>>>> Realtor in charge, is not around until next Monday. I did get a 
>>>>>>>> couple
>>>>>>>> of answers though.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1010 Grant Qs
>>>>>>>>        Can we move walls? -- Yes.
>>>>>>>>        Maximum repair costs we would be responsible for? -- NA
>>>>>>>>        Will it remain up for sale? -- Until someone rents it.
>>>>>>>>        What are the options on the lease term? 6 Mo? -- NA
>>>>>>>>        How is it zoned? -- S-C/C-2 (From Rick)
>>>>>>>>        Thoughts on late night noise limits? -- NA
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Monday we should get the rest of the NAs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>        Ciao!
>>>>>>>>        Clif
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mr. Clif wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    I think you guys were going to send me the questions so I 
>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>>> forget any. :-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>        Clif
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Rick Osgood wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    Sam, most of the walls in the building can be moved and the
>>>>>>>>>> management
>>>>>>>>>> company says that's ok for us to do.  So we do have some good
>>>>>>>>>> options for
>>>>>>>>>> reconfiguring the space.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Clif, are you sending questions over to the management 
>>>>>>>>>> company?  Did
>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> want me or someone else to do that?  Do you remember all of the
>>>>>>>>>> questions?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Rick
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Sam 
>>>>>>>>>> Foster<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>      I couldn't make the viewing as it turned out, but from 
>>>>>>>>>> the location
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> look of the place it might be a winner. I think in any space we
>>>>>>>>>>> balance
>>>>>>>>>>> making arbitrary amounts of noise at any time of day with the
>>>>>>>>>>> location. The
>>>>>>>>>>> floor plan does look a bit funky, but maybe some of those 
>>>>>>>>>>> walls are
>>>>>>>>>>> simple
>>>>>>>>>>> enough to (re)move? Either way, it checks my "need options for
>>>>>>>>>>> clean and
>>>>>>>>>>> quiet work" box.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Do I understand the whole building is up for sale though? 
>>>>>>>>>>> What's the
>>>>>>>>>>> length of the lease and is that a concern? It would suck to 
>>>>>>>>>>> spend
>>>>>>>>>>> time and
>>>>>>>>>>> money refurbing and getting moved in only to have to move again
>>>>>>>>>>> when the
>>>>>>>>>>> new owner makes new plans. Or perhaps the owner just needs 
>>>>>>>>>>> to get
>>>>>>>>>>> money
>>>>>>>>>>> flowing again and would take it off the market if we sign a 
>>>>>>>>>>> lease.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> /Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/12/2013 11:30 AM, Mr. Clif wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>      Here are my pictures of the 1010 Grant space, they are 
>>>>>>>>>>> unsorted
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> right now
>>>>>>>>>>>> but I might be able to get to that later... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.eugeneweb.com/******gallery2/v/clif/Geeky/EMS/****<http://www.eugeneweb.com/****gallery2/v/clif/Geeky/EMS/****> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1010Grant/<http://www.**eugeneweb.com/**gallery2/v/**
>>>>>>>>>>>> clif/Geeky/EMS/**1010Grant/<http://www.eugeneweb.com/**gallery2/v/clif/Geeky/EMS/**1010Grant/> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.**eugeneweb.com/**gallery2/v/clif/**Geeky/EMS/**
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1010Grant/<http://eugeneweb.com/gallery2/v/clif/**Geeky/EMS/1010Grant/> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.**eugeneweb.com/gallery2/v/clif/**Geeky/EMS/1010Grant/<http://www.eugeneweb.com/gallery2/v/clif/Geeky/EMS/1010Grant/> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>          Clif
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Rick Osgood wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>      When we looked at this space yesterday I got the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> feeling that we
>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>>> liked this space.  I just got a general good feeling from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> all thought it could work really well for EMS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone have anything negative to say about this space?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Personally,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the only things I can think of are having an apartment on 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> top of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> space
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and being right next to a residential house.  Other than 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this space.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      ______________________________******_________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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