[EMS Discuss] New Space Budget Poll

EMAIL HIDDEN EMAIL HIDDEN
Wed Sep 18 23:37:38 PDT 2013


All,

I completely failed to notice that Clif asked us to respond to Board(@eugenemakerspace.com) and not Discuss.  So
ignore everything I said.  (Usually a good idea anyway.  :-))

-Darrell

> Hi Gang,
>
> Well it seems like we have collected some viable new space
> possibilities! Though they are a bit of a stretch for us financially. I
> think we should take a quick poll and see if we can actually afford any
> of them. :-) This poll can't be anonymous because we need to know who is
> signing up for what.
>
> I would like to suggest that everyone to send an email to Board with how
> much extra you are willing to pay for each place. Also if you would like
> to rent some extra floor space just for your projects, or an office (if
> one is available) how much you are willing to pay for how much space.
> This kinda boils down to voting with your dollars, though the board will
> have to do the final checks with the land lord and city to see if
> everything will work.
>
> You can choose any place listed on our new spaces page here:
> https://www.eugenemakerspace.com/wiki/Sites/NewSpaceSearch
>
> However, I would suggest that the main two we are considering are the
> 1010 Grant, and W 7th locations. I would also be ok with the 175 Danebo
> place, but pick whatever ones you like, and give us the following info
> for each one you're interested in:
>
> Your name
> The place
> How much total per month you would pay us to be there until our
> membership grows to be sufficient to         cover it. This would be a
> maximum only and will gradually diminish as we get new members. It
>              includes your dues, so $25 would be no change.
> What extra personal space in Sqft you would be willing to pay extra for.
> and how much. Please include             notes on this. Eg. is it
> storage, work, or office space?
>
> You can also place a negative "vote" for a space by saying you would pay
> $0.00 thereby canceling your membership.
>
> Ok I will start.
>
> Name: Clif
> 1010 Grant: $100
> W 7th:          $100
> 175 S Danebo: $75 (It's a bit out there)
> and I don't need any extra personal space right now. :-)
>
>      Ciao!
>      Clif
>
> Mr. Clif wrote:
>> Hi gang,
>>
>> The nice lady at the city planning office called me this morning with
>> some more info:
>>
>> The City planing office would like to put us in the Specialized
>> education category. That would allow us to chose from many zones such
>> as C2, C3, I1, I2, or I3. As you might imagine these are essentially
>> all the non-residential zones in Eugene.
>>
>> if we need to change anything in the building that requires a building
>> permit then that might trigger a change of use permit or the resulting
>> review process. This would probably result in a change to the number
>> of vehicle or bicycle parking spots we need.
>>
>> Though as a Specialized education org we need to have one parking
>> space for every 3.5 "students", and one bicycle spot for every 5
>> "students" who are there on average during a open hack night. Now 25%
>> of these bicycle parking spots must be for full time "students" or
>> "faculty" a full time parking slot is dry and lockable.
>>
>> If we grow over the first break point which I think is 50 members,
>> then we might also need to talk with public works. based on our use
>> and number of students. One bathroom would probably not be enough.
>> Same goes for building exits etc...
>>
>> So far this all sounds fairly reasonable and it sounds like they want
>> to be helpful. I'm not as sure about the category they put us in but I
>> guess it works for now, and dovetails nicely with what Kiki is doing.
>>
>>     Clif
>>
>> Greg Norman wrote:
>>> I like this analysis.
>>>   Greg Norman
>>>
>>> From: Mr. Clif<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>> To: Rick Osgood<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>> Cc: "EMAIL HIDDEN"<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 4:28 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [EMS Discuss] Help us find a new home!
>>>
>>>
>>> Wow Rick thats quite an essay! :-) Thanks for taking the time to put all
>>> that down on paper.
>>>
>>> I just was down at the city planner's office and the lady there gave me
>>> lots of good info. Of course some of it was geared to get people like us
>>> to file for permits so they can earn some more money, so with that in
>>> mind here is what I learned...
>>>
>>> That nose ordinance applies pretty much everywhere, specifically at both
>>> these places. After 10 PM anyone could call in a complaint, and I
>>> believe that if it's the second one in a year that they can fine you.
>>> The first time you can probably get away with saying that it was the
>>> last renter before you that did it. The second time would be your first
>>> time, and then the third time (within a year) you would get fined. They
>>> start about $450 for the first one and $800 something for the second
>>> according to the lady there. So you really don't want to be close to
>>> someone who complains.
>>>
>>> Parking is another issue, they want to see so many parking spaces per
>>> some amount of sqft of floor space (that could be occupied by a person)
>>> so space that is used only for storage doesn't count. They are not sure
>>> how they would label us but if we were artists then its about one
>>> parking slot for about every $250 / sqft. If we are manufacturing then
>>> its one for every 550 sqft. Bigger numbers are better because you need
>>> fewer parking spaces, and if you have them then in the cities eyes we
>>> arn't breaking any laws. Now the 1010 Grant space dosn't "Own" all the
>>> slots in front of it. The city has some of those as part of the easement
>>> so only three are actually ours. Though I don't really think anyone
>>> would complain if we were just parking in that area in front. If there
>>> were lots of cars in front of houses then yes it would be a problem. The
>>> W 7th property does have lots of parking even in the cities eyes.
>>>
>>> I agree with Rick that we want to build our community, that's one reason
>>> we're moving. If we are successful and continue growing, then eventually
>>> we will have to move again. The question is will that time be forced on
>>> us by the city or at our own choosing?
>>>
>>> PS: we can find out a lot of this info on http://rlid.org/however it
>>> costs a lot darn! :-(
>>>
>>>      Clif
>>>
>>> Rick Osgood wrote:
>>>> I'm not sure we should count the noise ordinance thing until after
>>>> you hear
>>>> back and find out if it actually applies.  When considering
>>>> locations, I
>>>> think it's important to consider the purpose of Eugene Maker Space.
>>>> Each
>>>> member may have a different opinion about what purpose(s) we have, and
>>>> which are more important.  But here is what I think EMS's goals
>>>> should be,
>>>> in order of what I think is most important to least important (It's
>>>> a close
>>>> tie between all three though).
>>>>
>>>> 1) Strive to provide resources (space and tools) for people to build
>>>> anything they can imagine.
>>>> 2) Build a fun and healthy community of makers/hackers who hang out,
>>>> work
>>>> together, share knowledge.
>>>> 3) Work within the local community (Eugene/Springfield) to help promote
>>>> making, engineering, etc.
>>>>
>>>> I really like both spaces but neither are perfect.  With those three
>>>> missions in mind, if I had to choose one space I think I would
>>>> actually end
>>>> up choosing the 1010 grant space.  Here's why.  The W 7th space really
>>>> helps us with Mission #1.  But in terms of Mission #2, I don't think it
>>>> puts us in any better situation than we are now, and personally I
>>>> think we
>>>> need to improve our community.  I think the Grant space will help us
>>>> improve both #1 and #2.  It may not help out #1 as much as the W 7th
>>>> space,
>>>> but I think it has a better balance between the two and regardless
>>>> we'll be
>>>> better off with than we are now on both fronts.  I think it is better
>>>> suited to build our community, and that's something we REALLY need
>>>> if we
>>>> want EMS to grow into a bigger space.  I fear that the W 7th space
>>>> will be
>>>> a great workshop but it won't promote the community hangout aspect we
>>>> really need to improve.  As for Mission #3, I think the Grant space
>>>> in it's
>>>> current form is better suited for this too.  With separate quiet
>>>> rooms we
>>>> will be better able to host events at EMS or even to allow other
>>>> organizations to hold events within our own space.  It also has a nice
>>>> kitchen area we can use when hosting events to keep food and drink
>>>> separate
>>>> from the dirty shop.  These things can really help us make strong
>>>> ties with
>>>> the rest of the Eugene community.
>>>>
>>>> That's the bottom line for me.  For more details about what things I
>>>> like
>>>> and dislike about each space, keep reading.  But the important bit
>>>> is above
>>>> so if you are already bored feel free to stop here ;)
>>>>
>>>> The W 7th space is a good option but we'd have to spend time and
>>>> money (who
>>>> has either?) to fix the gate issues so our members can get in
>>>> off-hours.
>>>>    We also only have one small office which means if we want divided
>>>> space we
>>>> need to build it ourselves (more time and money).  I fear that one
>>>> reason
>>>> we don't retain new people is because they walk into our current
>>>> space and
>>>> they are immediately placed into a dirty workshop environment.
>>>> There's no
>>>> clean or quiet area for them.  We can't ease them into the space.
>>>> The W
>>>> 7th space is the exact same way.  Also, while I love the feeling of
>>>> high
>>>> ceilings, the huge space will be very inefficient to heat.  If we had
>>>> smaller hang out rooms to compensate we might be OK, but it's tough
>>>> to want
>>>> to go down to EMS on open hack night when I know I'm going to just sit
>>>> around and freeze.
>>>>
>>>> The 1010 Grant space is not in a very good location, in that there
>>>> is an
>>>> apartment literally on top of it and a house 3 feet from the main wall.
>>>>    Also the divisions are laid out strangely and some of the rooms
>>>> are likely
>>>> too small to be useful to us.  While we do have permission to move
>>>> walls,
>>>> it will take more time and money to fix.  Plus the electrical stuff
>>>> we move
>>>> has to be up to code.  It has a good sized bay door, but it's not at
>>>> street
>>>> level so we'll have to build a big ramp to get vehicles in.  More
>>>> time and
>>>> money spent.
>>>>
>>>> With all the negative things out of the way, here's a simple list of
>>>> all
>>>> the things I really like about each space.
>>>>
>>>> W 7th:
>>>> - Big ceilings and open space make me feel like I can build anything
>>>> - Pretty good parking
>>>> - Right next to Home Depot (for supplies and for advertising events)
>>>> - 16 foot roll up door to get big projects in and out
>>>>
>>>> 1010 Grant:
>>>> - Space is already divided into offices and work space
>>>> - Has an entry area that may be more welcoming to new visitors
>>>> rather than
>>>> dumping them right into a dirty shop
>>>> - Probably enough street parking
>>>> - Park right across the street
>>>> - Right off West 11th
>>>> - Kitchen area
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Mr. Clif<EMAIL HIDDEN>   wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm sorry, I don't really know which one I would like better, and
>>>>> yes I
>>>>> might have subconsciously worded it that way. However those are the
>>>>> facts
>>>>> as I know them. I do have a call into the planning department to
>>>>> double
>>>>> check the noise ordnance.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway they have a lot of simularities I know you like 1010 Grant, and
>>>>> Darrel likes W 7th. I could be happy with either I think.
>>>>>
>>>>>        What about the rest of us?
>>>>>
>>>>>        Clif
>>>>>
>>>>> Cord Slatton wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sounds like you are pushing hard for the w. 7th....? That email
>>>>>> you just
>>>>>> sent is worded to push people towards it.
>>>>>> On Sep 16, 2013 1:13 PM, "Mr. Clif"<EMAIL HIDDEN>   wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    So I think we should take an informal poll on how we feel about
>>>>>> our two
>>>>>>> top spaces, which seem to be the W 7th, and 1010 Grant spaces.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They are the same square footage, and probably around the same
>>>>>>> price, but
>>>>>>> the 1010 Grant space is carved up in to lots of office space, and
>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> a nose limit after ten. The insulation is probably good on both
>>>>>>> buildings.
>>>>>>> The W7th one has gas heat and high ceilings, and the 1010 Grant
>>>>>>> space has
>>>>>>> lower ceilings but electric? heat So would the heating bill be a
>>>>>>> wash? We
>>>>>>> have some example amounts for the W 7th place at least. The 1010
>>>>>>> grant
>>>>>>> space may have more walk by traffic but not sure if it's the
>>>>>>> people you
>>>>>>> want. The W 7th place is across the street from Home Depot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What do you guys think? Should we take a straw poll?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>        Clif
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mr. Clif wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    Hi Gang,
>>>>>>>> I got the rest of the questions answered. here they are:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1010 Grant Qs
>>>>>>>>        Can we move walls? -- Yes.
>>>>>>>>        Maximum repair costs we would be responsible for? -- Yes
>>>>>>>> we can cap
>>>>>>>> it, eg. Negotiable.
>>>>>>>>            Modified Gross; Would consider triple net as a way of
>>>>>>>> reducing
>>>>>>>> costs to both parties.
>>>>>>>>        Will it remain up for sale? -- Only until someone rents it.
>>>>>>>>        What are the options on the lease term? -- 1 year; would
>>>>>>>> consider 6
>>>>>>>> mo.
>>>>>>>>        How is it zoned? -- S-C/C-2 (From Rick)
>>>>>>>>        Thoughts on late night noise limits? -- It has filled
>>>>>>>> Cinder block
>>>>>>>> construction.
>>>>>>>>            If you strategically place the noisy tools it might
>>>>>>>> help.
>>>>>>>>            The Realtor believes the 10 PM noise ordinance does
>>>>>>>> apply. We
>>>>>>>> need to double check on this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mr. Clif wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    Hi Gang,
>>>>>>>>> Well I composed my list of questions and called them today but the
>>>>>>>>> Realtor in charge, is not around until next Monday. I did get a
>>>>>>>>> couple
>>>>>>>>> of answers though.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1010 Grant Qs
>>>>>>>>>        Can we move walls? -- Yes.
>>>>>>>>>        Maximum repair costs we would be responsible for? -- NA
>>>>>>>>>        Will it remain up for sale? -- Until someone rents it.
>>>>>>>>>        What are the options on the lease term? 6 Mo? -- NA
>>>>>>>>>        How is it zoned? -- S-C/C-2 (From Rick)
>>>>>>>>>        Thoughts on late night noise limits? -- NA
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Monday we should get the rest of the NAs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>        Ciao!
>>>>>>>>>        Clif
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mr. Clif wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    I think you guys were going to send me the questions so I
>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>>>> forget any. :-)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>        Clif
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Rick Osgood wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>    Sam, most of the walls in the building can be moved and the
>>>>>>>>>>> management
>>>>>>>>>>> company says that's ok for us to do.  So we do have some good
>>>>>>>>>>> options for
>>>>>>>>>>> reconfiguring the space.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Clif, are you sending questions over to the management
>>>>>>>>>>> company?  Did
>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>> want me or someone else to do that?  Do you remember all of the
>>>>>>>>>>> questions?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Rick
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Sam
>>>>>>>>>>> Foster<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>      I couldn't make the viewing as it turned out, but from
>>>>>>>>>>> the location
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> look of the place it might be a winner. I think in any space we
>>>>>>>>>>>> balance
>>>>>>>>>>>> making arbitrary amounts of noise at any time of day with the
>>>>>>>>>>>> location. The
>>>>>>>>>>>> floor plan does look a bit funky, but maybe some of those
>>>>>>>>>>>> walls are
>>>>>>>>>>>> simple
>>>>>>>>>>>> enough to (re)move? Either way, it checks my "need options for
>>>>>>>>>>>> clean and
>>>>>>>>>>>> quiet work" box.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Do I understand the whole building is up for sale though?
>>>>>>>>>>>> What's the
>>>>>>>>>>>> length of the lease and is that a concern? It would suck to
>>>>>>>>>>>> spend
>>>>>>>>>>>> time and
>>>>>>>>>>>> money refurbing and getting moved in only to have to move again
>>>>>>>>>>>> when the
>>>>>>>>>>>> new owner makes new plans. Or perhaps the owner just needs
>>>>>>>>>>>> to get
>>>>>>>>>>>> money
>>>>>>>>>>>> flowing again and would take it off the market if we sign a
>>>>>>>>>>>> lease.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> /Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/12/2013 11:30 AM, Mr. Clif wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>      Here are my pictures of the 1010 Grant space, they are
>>>>>>>>>>>> unsorted
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> right now
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I might be able to get to that later... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.eugeneweb.com/******gallery2/v/clif/Geeky/EMS/****<http://www.eugeneweb.com/****gallery2/v/clif/Geeky/EMS/****>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1010Grant/<http://www.**eugeneweb.com/**gallery2/v/**
>>>>>>>>>>>>> clif/Geeky/EMS/**1010Grant/<http://www.eugeneweb.com/**gallery2/v/clif/Geeky/EMS/**1010Grant/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.**eugeneweb.com/**gallery2/v/clif/**Geeky/EMS/**
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1010Grant/<http://eugeneweb.com/gallery2/v/clif/**Geeky/EMS/1010Grant/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.**eugeneweb.com/gallery2/v/clif/**Geeky/EMS/1010Grant/<http://www.eugeneweb.com/gallery2/v/clif/Geeky/EMS/1010Grant/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>          Clif
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rick Osgood wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      When we looked at this space yesterday I got the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> feeling that we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> liked this space.  I just got a general good feeling from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all thought it could work really well for EMS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone have anything negative to say about this space?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Personally,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the only things I can think of are having an apartment on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> top of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> space
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and being right next to a residential house.  Other than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this space.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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