[EMS Discuss] Help us find a new home!

Mr. Clif EMAIL HIDDEN
Fri Sep 20 08:27:38 PDT 2013


Yep,

a train came by while I was there. ;-)

So we're looking at four places today anyone else want to join us? Looks 
like this afternoon unless more than one wants to do it this morning.

     Clif

EMAIL HIDDEN wrote:
> Cool, the one in the Whit is down by the tracks.  I bet no one complains about noise, there, ever.  Doesn't look like
> it has any office space, or at least none is mentioned. :-)
>
> Decent location.  It helps being nearby and nearly equidistant to three brew pubs.  Well recessed off any main street,
> however.
>
> I will predict that Cord will like the location, at least.  ;-)
>
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> The nice Realtor for the Franklin space sent me some other
>> possibilities. There were some that were around $2000 / mo which I
>> ignored. I'll ask her if the owners of any of those might come down in
>> price for a cool non-profit. Here is the short list for the new ones:
>>
>> # $1000 / 2325ft² 43c / sqft - 710 Commercial st. St # 103
>>
>>    * Flier: 710_Commercial.pdf
>>      <https://www.eugenemakerspace.com/wiki/pub/Sites/NewSpaceSearch/710_Commercial.pdf>
>>
>>    * Almost as far as the Danebo space.
>>
>> # $1125 / 2500ft² 45c / sqft - 870 W. 2nd (in the Whitaker X Adams.)
>>
>>    * Flier: 870_W_2nd.pdf
>>      <https://www.eugenemakerspace.com/wiki/pub/Sites/NewSpaceSearch/870_W_2nd.pdf>
>>
>>    *
>>
>> # $1200 / 4400ft² 27c / sqft - 4068 Stewart Rd.
>>
>>    * Flier: 4068_Stewart_Rd.jpeg
>>      <https://www.eugenemakerspace.com/wiki/pub/Sites/NewSpaceSearch/4068_Stewart_Rd.jpeg>
>>
>>    * A bit farther than Obie.
>>
>> # $1250 / 3000ft² 42c / sqft - 645 Powers Street, Suite J
>>
>>    * Flier: 645_Powers.pdf
>>      <https://www.eugenemakerspace.com/wiki/pub/Sites/NewSpaceSearch/645_Powers.pdf>
>>
>>    *
>>
>> # $2017 / 4203ft² 48c / sqft - 2101 W 10th ave. (Next to the old Next Step
>> store)
>>
>>    * Flier: 2101_W_10th.pdf
>>      <https://www.eugenemakerspace.com/wiki/pub/Sites/NewSpaceSearch/2101_W_10th.pdf>
>>
>>    * They would have to come down in price substantially
>>
>>
>> As always you can see them on our New Space page here:
>>
>> https://www.eugenemakerspace.com/wiki/Sites/NewSpaceSearch
>>
>> I'm going to drive by them now and tomorrow we could have her show us
>> the interesting ones. Anyone want to join me then?
>>
>>       Ciao,
>>       Clif
>>
>> Mr. Clif wrote:
>>> Hi gang,
>>>
>>> The nice lady at the city planning office called me this morning with
>>> some more info:
>>>
>>> The City planing office would like to put us in the Specialized
>>> education category. That would allow us to chose from many zones such
>>> as C2, C3, I1, I2, or I3. As you might imagine these are essentially
>>> all the non-residential zones in Eugene.
>>>
>>> if we need to change anything in the building that requires a building
>>> permit then that might trigger a change of use permit or the resulting
>>> review process. This would probably result in a change to the number
>>> of vehicle or bicycle parking spots we need.
>>>
>>> Though as a Specialized education org we need to have one parking
>>> space for every 3.5 "students", and one bicycle spot for every 5
>>> "students" who are there on average during a open hack night. Now 25%
>>> of these bicycle parking spots must be for full time "students" or
>>> "faculty" a full time parking slot is dry and lockable.
>>>
>>> If we grow over the first break point which I think is 50 members,
>>> then we might also need to talk with public works. based on our use
>>> and number of students. One bathroom would probably not be enough.
>>> Same goes for building exits etc...
>>>
>>> So far this all sounds fairly reasonable and it sounds like they want
>>> to be helpful. I'm not as sure about the category they put us in but I
>>> guess it works for now, and dovetails nicely with what Kiki is doing.
>>>
>>>      Clif
>>>
>>> Greg Norman wrote:
>>>> I like this analysis.
>>>>    Greg Norman
>>>>
>>>> From: Mr. Clif<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>> To: Rick Osgood<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>> Cc: "EMAIL HIDDEN"<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 4:28 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [EMS Discuss] Help us find a new home!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Wow Rick thats quite an essay! :-) Thanks for taking the time to put all
>>>> that down on paper.
>>>>
>>>> I just was down at the city planner's office and the lady there gave me
>>>> lots of good info. Of course some of it was geared to get people like us
>>>> to file for permits so they can earn some more money, so with that in
>>>> mind here is what I learned...
>>>>
>>>> That nose ordinance applies pretty much everywhere, specifically at both
>>>> these places. After 10 PM anyone could call in a complaint, and I
>>>> believe that if it's the second one in a year that they can fine you.
>>>> The first time you can probably get away with saying that it was the
>>>> last renter before you that did it. The second time would be your first
>>>> time, and then the third time (within a year) you would get fined. They
>>>> start about $450 for the first one and $800 something for the second
>>>> according to the lady there. So you really don't want to be close to
>>>> someone who complains.
>>>>
>>>> Parking is another issue, they want to see so many parking spaces per
>>>> some amount of sqft of floor space (that could be occupied by a person)
>>>> so space that is used only for storage doesn't count. They are not sure
>>>> how they would label us but if we were artists then its about one
>>>> parking slot for about every $250 / sqft. If we are manufacturing then
>>>> its one for every 550 sqft. Bigger numbers are better because you need
>>>> fewer parking spaces, and if you have them then in the cities eyes we
>>>> arn't breaking any laws. Now the 1010 Grant space dosn't "Own" all the
>>>> slots in front of it. The city has some of those as part of the easement
>>>> so only three are actually ours. Though I don't really think anyone
>>>> would complain if we were just parking in that area in front. If there
>>>> were lots of cars in front of houses then yes it would be a problem. The
>>>> W 7th property does have lots of parking even in the cities eyes.
>>>>
>>>> I agree with Rick that we want to build our community, that's one reason
>>>> we're moving. If we are successful and continue growing, then eventually
>>>> we will have to move again. The question is will that time be forced on
>>>> us by the city or at our own choosing?
>>>>
>>>> PS: we can find out a lot of this info on http://rlid.org/however it
>>>> costs a lot darn! :-(
>>>>
>>>>       Clif
>>>>
>>>> Rick Osgood wrote:
>>>>> I'm not sure we should count the noise ordinance thing until after
>>>>> you hear
>>>>> back and find out if it actually applies.  When considering
>>>>> locations, I
>>>>> think it's important to consider the purpose of Eugene Maker Space.
>>>>> Each
>>>>> member may have a different opinion about what purpose(s) we have, and
>>>>> which are more important.  But here is what I think EMS's goals
>>>>> should be,
>>>>> in order of what I think is most important to least important (It's
>>>>> a close
>>>>> tie between all three though).
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) Strive to provide resources (space and tools) for people to build
>>>>> anything they can imagine.
>>>>> 2) Build a fun and healthy community of makers/hackers who hang out,
>>>>> work
>>>>> together, share knowledge.
>>>>> 3) Work within the local community (Eugene/Springfield) to help promote
>>>>> making, engineering, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> I really like both spaces but neither are perfect.  With those three
>>>>> missions in mind, if I had to choose one space I think I would
>>>>> actually end
>>>>> up choosing the 1010 grant space.  Here's why.  The W 7th space really
>>>>> helps us with Mission #1.  But in terms of Mission #2, I don't think it
>>>>> puts us in any better situation than we are now, and personally I
>>>>> think we
>>>>> need to improve our community.  I think the Grant space will help us
>>>>> improve both #1 and #2.  It may not help out #1 as much as the W 7th
>>>>> space,
>>>>> but I think it has a better balance between the two and regardless
>>>>> we'll be
>>>>> better off with than we are now on both fronts.  I think it is better
>>>>> suited to build our community, and that's something we REALLY need
>>>>> if we
>>>>> want EMS to grow into a bigger space.  I fear that the W 7th space
>>>>> will be
>>>>> a great workshop but it won't promote the community hangout aspect we
>>>>> really need to improve.  As for Mission #3, I think the Grant space
>>>>> in it's
>>>>> current form is better suited for this too.  With separate quiet
>>>>> rooms we
>>>>> will be better able to host events at EMS or even to allow other
>>>>> organizations to hold events within our own space.  It also has a nice
>>>>> kitchen area we can use when hosting events to keep food and drink
>>>>> separate
>>>>> from the dirty shop.  These things can really help us make strong
>>>>> ties with
>>>>> the rest of the Eugene community.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's the bottom line for me.  For more details about what things I
>>>>> like
>>>>> and dislike about each space, keep reading.  But the important bit
>>>>> is above
>>>>> so if you are already bored feel free to stop here ;)
>>>>>
>>>>> The W 7th space is a good option but we'd have to spend time and
>>>>> money (who
>>>>> has either?) to fix the gate issues so our members can get in
>>>>> off-hours.
>>>>>     We also only have one small office which means if we want divided
>>>>> space we
>>>>> need to build it ourselves (more time and money).  I fear that one
>>>>> reason
>>>>> we don't retain new people is because they walk into our current
>>>>> space and
>>>>> they are immediately placed into a dirty workshop environment.
>>>>> There's no
>>>>> clean or quiet area for them.  We can't ease them into the space.
>>>>> The W
>>>>> 7th space is the exact same way.  Also, while I love the feeling of
>>>>> high
>>>>> ceilings, the huge space will be very inefficient to heat.  If we had
>>>>> smaller hang out rooms to compensate we might be OK, but it's tough
>>>>> to want
>>>>> to go down to EMS on open hack night when I know I'm going to just sit
>>>>> around and freeze.
>>>>>
>>>>> The 1010 Grant space is not in a very good location, in that there
>>>>> is an
>>>>> apartment literally on top of it and a house 3 feet from the main wall.
>>>>>     Also the divisions are laid out strangely and some of the rooms
>>>>> are likely
>>>>> too small to be useful to us.  While we do have permission to move
>>>>> walls,
>>>>> it will take more time and money to fix.  Plus the electrical stuff
>>>>> we move
>>>>> has to be up to code.  It has a good sized bay door, but it's not at
>>>>> street
>>>>> level so we'll have to build a big ramp to get vehicles in.  More
>>>>> time and
>>>>> money spent.
>>>>>
>>>>> With all the negative things out of the way, here's a simple list of
>>>>> all
>>>>> the things I really like about each space.
>>>>>
>>>>> W 7th:
>>>>> - Big ceilings and open space make me feel like I can build anything
>>>>> - Pretty good parking
>>>>> - Right next to Home Depot (for supplies and for advertising events)
>>>>> - 16 foot roll up door to get big projects in and out
>>>>>
>>>>> 1010 Grant:
>>>>> - Space is already divided into offices and work space
>>>>> - Has an entry area that may be more welcoming to new visitors
>>>>> rather than
>>>>> dumping them right into a dirty shop
>>>>> - Probably enough street parking
>>>>> - Park right across the street
>>>>> - Right off West 11th
>>>>> - Kitchen area
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Mr. Clif<EMAIL HIDDEN>    wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm sorry, I don't really know which one I would like better, and
>>>>>> yes I
>>>>>> might have subconsciously worded it that way. However those are the
>>>>>> facts
>>>>>> as I know them. I do have a call into the planning department to
>>>>>> double
>>>>>> check the noise ordnance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway they have a lot of simularities I know you like 1010 Grant, and
>>>>>> Darrel likes W 7th. I could be happy with either I think.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         What about the rest of us?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         Clif
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cord Slatton wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sounds like you are pushing hard for the w. 7th....? That email
>>>>>>> you just
>>>>>>> sent is worded to push people towards it.
>>>>>>> On Sep 16, 2013 1:13 PM, "Mr. Clif"<EMAIL HIDDEN>    wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     So I think we should take an informal poll on how we feel about
>>>>>>> our two
>>>>>>>> top spaces, which seem to be the W 7th, and 1010 Grant spaces.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They are the same square footage, and probably around the same
>>>>>>>> price, but
>>>>>>>> the 1010 Grant space is carved up in to lots of office space, and
>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> a nose limit after ten. The insulation is probably good on both
>>>>>>>> buildings.
>>>>>>>> The W7th one has gas heat and high ceilings, and the 1010 Grant
>>>>>>>> space has
>>>>>>>> lower ceilings but electric? heat So would the heating bill be a
>>>>>>>> wash? We
>>>>>>>> have some example amounts for the W 7th place at least. The 1010
>>>>>>>> grant
>>>>>>>> space may have more walk by traffic but not sure if it's the
>>>>>>>> people you
>>>>>>>> want. The W 7th place is across the street from Home Depot.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What do you guys think? Should we take a straw poll?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         Clif
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mr. Clif wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     Hi Gang,
>>>>>>>>> I got the rest of the questions answered. here they are:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1010 Grant Qs
>>>>>>>>>         Can we move walls? -- Yes.
>>>>>>>>>         Maximum repair costs we would be responsible for? -- Yes
>>>>>>>>> we can cap
>>>>>>>>> it, eg. Negotiable.
>>>>>>>>>             Modified Gross; Would consider triple net as a way of
>>>>>>>>> reducing
>>>>>>>>> costs to both parties.
>>>>>>>>>         Will it remain up for sale? -- Only until someone rents it.
>>>>>>>>>         What are the options on the lease term? -- 1 year; would
>>>>>>>>> consider 6
>>>>>>>>> mo.
>>>>>>>>>         How is it zoned? -- S-C/C-2 (From Rick)
>>>>>>>>>         Thoughts on late night noise limits? -- It has filled
>>>>>>>>> Cinder block
>>>>>>>>> construction.
>>>>>>>>>             If you strategically place the noisy tools it might
>>>>>>>>> help.
>>>>>>>>>             The Realtor believes the 10 PM noise ordinance does
>>>>>>>>> apply. We
>>>>>>>>> need to double check on this.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mr. Clif wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     Hi Gang,
>>>>>>>>>> Well I composed my list of questions and called them today but the
>>>>>>>>>> Realtor in charge, is not around until next Monday. I did get a
>>>>>>>>>> couple
>>>>>>>>>> of answers though.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1010 Grant Qs
>>>>>>>>>>         Can we move walls? -- Yes.
>>>>>>>>>>         Maximum repair costs we would be responsible for? -- NA
>>>>>>>>>>         Will it remain up for sale? -- Until someone rents it.
>>>>>>>>>>         What are the options on the lease term? 6 Mo? -- NA
>>>>>>>>>>         How is it zoned? -- S-C/C-2 (From Rick)
>>>>>>>>>>         Thoughts on late night noise limits? -- NA
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Monday we should get the rest of the NAs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         Ciao!
>>>>>>>>>>         Clif
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Mr. Clif wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     I think you guys were going to send me the questions so I
>>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>>>>> forget any. :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>         Clif
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Rick Osgood wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>     Sam, most of the walls in the building can be moved and the
>>>>>>>>>>>> management
>>>>>>>>>>>> company says that's ok for us to do.  So we do have some good
>>>>>>>>>>>> options for
>>>>>>>>>>>> reconfiguring the space.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Clif, are you sending questions over to the management
>>>>>>>>>>>> company?  Did
>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>> want me or someone else to do that?  Do you remember all of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> questions?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Rick
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>> Foster<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>       I couldn't make the viewing as it turned out, but from
>>>>>>>>>>>> the location
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> look of the place it might be a winner. I think in any space we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> balance
>>>>>>>>>>>>> making arbitrary amounts of noise at any time of day with the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> location. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> floor plan does look a bit funky, but maybe some of those
>>>>>>>>>>>>> walls are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> simple
>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough to (re)move? Either way, it checks my "need options for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> clean and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> quiet work" box.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do I understand the whole building is up for sale though?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What's the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> length of the lease and is that a concern? It would suck to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> spend
>>>>>>>>>>>>> time and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> money refurbing and getting moved in only to have to move again
>>>>>>>>>>>>> when the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> new owner makes new plans. Or perhaps the owner just needs
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>> money
>>>>>>>>>>>>> flowing again and would take it off the market if we sign a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lease.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/12/2013 11:30 AM, Mr. Clif wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>       Here are my pictures of the 1010 Grant space, they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsorted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I might be able to get to that later... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.eugeneweb.com/******gallery2/v/clif/Geeky/EMS/****<http://www.eugeneweb.com/****gallery2/v/clif/Geeky/EMS/****>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1010Grant/<http://www.**eugeneweb.com/**gallery2/v/**
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clif/Geeky/EMS/**1010Grant/<http://www.eugeneweb.com/**gallery2/v/clif/Geeky/EMS/**1010Grant/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.**eugeneweb.com/**gallery2/v/clif/**Geeky/EMS/**
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1010Grant/<http://eugeneweb.com/gallery2/v/clif/**Geeky/EMS/1010Grant/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.**eugeneweb.com/gallery2/v/clif/**Geeky/EMS/1010Grant/<http://www.eugeneweb.com/gallery2/v/clif/Geeky/EMS/1010Grant/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>           Clif
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rick Osgood wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>       When we looked at this space yesterday I got the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feeling that we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> liked this space.  I just got a general good feeling from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all thought it could work really well for EMS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone have anything negative to say about this space?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Personally,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the only things I can think of are having an apartment on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> top of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> space
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and being right next to a residential house.  Other than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this space.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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