[EMS Discuss] Help us find a new home!

Mr. Clif EMAIL HIDDEN
Mon Sep 23 17:23:43 PDT 2013


Hi Gang,

Well we seem to have found all the properties that are currently 
available so now we should try to choose one, as a few have been 
snatched up already. I just looked at a new one that is very cheep but 
has no rest room, so we probably are not interested.

So right now I think we need to try to get some more pledges for extra 
money so we have some choices.

There are a couple of new spaces that are interesting, One is 870 W. 2nd 
in the Whit which is funky but cool, and the other one is 2101 W 10th 
ave. (Next to the old Next Step store). That one would only be possible 
if they came down in price for us.

Please take a look at the pictures and video walk throughs (Darrell 
asked me to remove the sound), and let us know what you think.

As always the latest info is here: 
https://www.eugenemakerspace.com/wiki/Sites/NewSpaceSearch

Oh and please keep those pledges coming! :-)

     Ciao,
     Clif

Mr. Clif wrote:
> Yep,
>
> a train came by while I was there. ;-)
>
> So we're looking at four places today anyone else want to join us? 
> Looks like this afternoon unless more than one wants to do it this 
> morning.
>
>     Clif
>
> EMAIL HIDDEN wrote:
>> Cool, the one in the Whit is down by the tracks.  I bet no one 
>> complains about noise, there, ever.  Doesn't look like
>> it has any office space, or at least none is mentioned. :-)
>>
>> Decent location.  It helps being nearby and nearly equidistant to 
>> three brew pubs.  Well recessed off any main street,
>> however.
>>
>> I will predict that Cord will like the location, at least.  ;-)
>>
>>> Hi Guys,
>>>
>>> The nice Realtor for the Franklin space sent me some other
>>> possibilities. There were some that were around $2000 / mo which I
>>> ignored. I'll ask her if the owners of any of those might come down in
>>> price for a cool non-profit. Here is the short list for the new ones:
>>>
>>> # $1000 / 2325ft² 43c / sqft - 710 Commercial st. St # 103
>>>
>>>    * Flier: 710_Commercial.pdf
>>> <https://www.eugenemakerspace.com/wiki/pub/Sites/NewSpaceSearch/710_Commercial.pdf>
>>>
>>>    * Almost as far as the Danebo space.
>>>
>>> # $1125 / 2500ft² 45c / sqft - 870 W. 2nd (in the Whitaker X Adams.)
>>>
>>>    * Flier: 870_W_2nd.pdf
>>> <https://www.eugenemakerspace.com/wiki/pub/Sites/NewSpaceSearch/870_W_2nd.pdf>
>>>
>>>    *
>>>
>>> # $1200 / 4400ft² 27c / sqft - 4068 Stewart Rd.
>>>
>>>    * Flier: 4068_Stewart_Rd.jpeg
>>> <https://www.eugenemakerspace.com/wiki/pub/Sites/NewSpaceSearch/4068_Stewart_Rd.jpeg>
>>>
>>>    * A bit farther than Obie.
>>>
>>> # $1250 / 3000ft² 42c / sqft - 645 Powers Street, Suite J
>>>
>>>    * Flier: 645_Powers.pdf
>>> <https://www.eugenemakerspace.com/wiki/pub/Sites/NewSpaceSearch/645_Powers.pdf>
>>>
>>>    *
>>>
>>> # $2017 / 4203ft² 48c / sqft - 2101 W 10th ave. (Next to the old 
>>> Next Step
>>> store)
>>>
>>>    * Flier: 2101_W_10th.pdf
>>> <https://www.eugenemakerspace.com/wiki/pub/Sites/NewSpaceSearch/2101_W_10th.pdf>
>>>
>>>    * They would have to come down in price substantially
>>>
>>>
>>> As always you can see them on our New Space page here:
>>>
>>> https://www.eugenemakerspace.com/wiki/Sites/NewSpaceSearch
>>>
>>> I'm going to drive by them now and tomorrow we could have her show us
>>> the interesting ones. Anyone want to join me then?
>>>
>>>       Ciao,
>>>       Clif
>>>
>>> Mr. Clif wrote:
>>>> Hi gang,
>>>>
>>>> The nice lady at the city planning office called me this morning with
>>>> some more info:
>>>>
>>>> The City planing office would like to put us in the Specialized
>>>> education category. That would allow us to chose from many zones such
>>>> as C2, C3, I1, I2, or I3. As you might imagine these are essentially
>>>> all the non-residential zones in Eugene.
>>>>
>>>> if we need to change anything in the building that requires a building
>>>> permit then that might trigger a change of use permit or the resulting
>>>> review process. This would probably result in a change to the number
>>>> of vehicle or bicycle parking spots we need.
>>>>
>>>> Though as a Specialized education org we need to have one parking
>>>> space for every 3.5 "students", and one bicycle spot for every 5
>>>> "students" who are there on average during a open hack night. Now 25%
>>>> of these bicycle parking spots must be for full time "students" or
>>>> "faculty" a full time parking slot is dry and lockable.
>>>>
>>>> If we grow over the first break point which I think is 50 members,
>>>> then we might also need to talk with public works. based on our use
>>>> and number of students. One bathroom would probably not be enough.
>>>> Same goes for building exits etc...
>>>>
>>>> So far this all sounds fairly reasonable and it sounds like they want
>>>> to be helpful. I'm not as sure about the category they put us in but I
>>>> guess it works for now, and dovetails nicely with what Kiki is doing.
>>>>
>>>>      Clif
>>>>
>>>> Greg Norman wrote:
>>>>> I like this analysis.
>>>>>    Greg Norman
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Mr. Clif<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>> To: Rick Osgood<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>> Cc: "EMAIL HIDDEN"<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 4:28 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [EMS Discuss] Help us find a new home!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Wow Rick thats quite an essay! :-) Thanks for taking the time to 
>>>>> put all
>>>>> that down on paper.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just was down at the city planner's office and the lady there 
>>>>> gave me
>>>>> lots of good info. Of course some of it was geared to get people 
>>>>> like us
>>>>> to file for permits so they can earn some more money, so with that in
>>>>> mind here is what I learned...
>>>>>
>>>>> That nose ordinance applies pretty much everywhere, specifically 
>>>>> at both
>>>>> these places. After 10 PM anyone could call in a complaint, and I
>>>>> believe that if it's the second one in a year that they can fine you.
>>>>> The first time you can probably get away with saying that it was the
>>>>> last renter before you that did it. The second time would be your 
>>>>> first
>>>>> time, and then the third time (within a year) you would get fined. 
>>>>> They
>>>>> start about $450 for the first one and $800 something for the second
>>>>> according to the lady there. So you really don't want to be close to
>>>>> someone who complains.
>>>>>
>>>>> Parking is another issue, they want to see so many parking spaces per
>>>>> some amount of sqft of floor space (that could be occupied by a 
>>>>> person)
>>>>> so space that is used only for storage doesn't count. They are not 
>>>>> sure
>>>>> how they would label us but if we were artists then its about one
>>>>> parking slot for about every $250 / sqft. If we are manufacturing 
>>>>> then
>>>>> its one for every 550 sqft. Bigger numbers are better because you 
>>>>> need
>>>>> fewer parking spaces, and if you have them then in the cities eyes we
>>>>> arn't breaking any laws. Now the 1010 Grant space dosn't "Own" all 
>>>>> the
>>>>> slots in front of it. The city has some of those as part of the 
>>>>> easement
>>>>> so only three are actually ours. Though I don't really think anyone
>>>>> would complain if we were just parking in that area in front. If 
>>>>> there
>>>>> were lots of cars in front of houses then yes it would be a 
>>>>> problem. The
>>>>> W 7th property does have lots of parking even in the cities eyes.
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree with Rick that we want to build our community, that's one 
>>>>> reason
>>>>> we're moving. If we are successful and continue growing, then 
>>>>> eventually
>>>>> we will have to move again. The question is will that time be 
>>>>> forced on
>>>>> us by the city or at our own choosing?
>>>>>
>>>>> PS: we can find out a lot of this info on http://rlid.org/however it
>>>>> costs a lot darn! :-(
>>>>>
>>>>>       Clif
>>>>>
>>>>> Rick Osgood wrote:
>>>>>> I'm not sure we should count the noise ordinance thing until after
>>>>>> you hear
>>>>>> back and find out if it actually applies.  When considering
>>>>>> locations, I
>>>>>> think it's important to consider the purpose of Eugene Maker Space.
>>>>>> Each
>>>>>> member may have a different opinion about what purpose(s) we 
>>>>>> have, and
>>>>>> which are more important.  But here is what I think EMS's goals
>>>>>> should be,
>>>>>> in order of what I think is most important to least important (It's
>>>>>> a close
>>>>>> tie between all three though).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) Strive to provide resources (space and tools) for people to build
>>>>>> anything they can imagine.
>>>>>> 2) Build a fun and healthy community of makers/hackers who hang out,
>>>>>> work
>>>>>> together, share knowledge.
>>>>>> 3) Work within the local community (Eugene/Springfield) to help 
>>>>>> promote
>>>>>> making, engineering, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I really like both spaces but neither are perfect.  With those three
>>>>>> missions in mind, if I had to choose one space I think I would
>>>>>> actually end
>>>>>> up choosing the 1010 grant space.  Here's why.  The W 7th space 
>>>>>> really
>>>>>> helps us with Mission #1.  But in terms of Mission #2, I don't 
>>>>>> think it
>>>>>> puts us in any better situation than we are now, and personally I
>>>>>> think we
>>>>>> need to improve our community.  I think the Grant space will help us
>>>>>> improve both #1 and #2.  It may not help out #1 as much as the W 7th
>>>>>> space,
>>>>>> but I think it has a better balance between the two and regardless
>>>>>> we'll be
>>>>>> better off with than we are now on both fronts.  I think it is 
>>>>>> better
>>>>>> suited to build our community, and that's something we REALLY need
>>>>>> if we
>>>>>> want EMS to grow into a bigger space.  I fear that the W 7th space
>>>>>> will be
>>>>>> a great workshop but it won't promote the community hangout 
>>>>>> aspect we
>>>>>> really need to improve.  As for Mission #3, I think the Grant space
>>>>>> in it's
>>>>>> current form is better suited for this too.  With separate quiet
>>>>>> rooms we
>>>>>> will be better able to host events at EMS or even to allow other
>>>>>> organizations to hold events within our own space.  It also has a 
>>>>>> nice
>>>>>> kitchen area we can use when hosting events to keep food and drink
>>>>>> separate
>>>>>> from the dirty shop.  These things can really help us make strong
>>>>>> ties with
>>>>>> the rest of the Eugene community.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's the bottom line for me.  For more details about what things I
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> and dislike about each space, keep reading.  But the important bit
>>>>>> is above
>>>>>> so if you are already bored feel free to stop here ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The W 7th space is a good option but we'd have to spend time and
>>>>>> money (who
>>>>>> has either?) to fix the gate issues so our members can get in
>>>>>> off-hours.
>>>>>>     We also only have one small office which means if we want 
>>>>>> divided
>>>>>> space we
>>>>>> need to build it ourselves (more time and money).  I fear that one
>>>>>> reason
>>>>>> we don't retain new people is because they walk into our current
>>>>>> space and
>>>>>> they are immediately placed into a dirty workshop environment.
>>>>>> There's no
>>>>>> clean or quiet area for them.  We can't ease them into the space.
>>>>>> The W
>>>>>> 7th space is the exact same way.  Also, while I love the feeling of
>>>>>> high
>>>>>> ceilings, the huge space will be very inefficient to heat.  If we 
>>>>>> had
>>>>>> smaller hang out rooms to compensate we might be OK, but it's tough
>>>>>> to want
>>>>>> to go down to EMS on open hack night when I know I'm going to 
>>>>>> just sit
>>>>>> around and freeze.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The 1010 Grant space is not in a very good location, in that there
>>>>>> is an
>>>>>> apartment literally on top of it and a house 3 feet from the main 
>>>>>> wall.
>>>>>>     Also the divisions are laid out strangely and some of the rooms
>>>>>> are likely
>>>>>> too small to be useful to us.  While we do have permission to move
>>>>>> walls,
>>>>>> it will take more time and money to fix.  Plus the electrical stuff
>>>>>> we move
>>>>>> has to be up to code.  It has a good sized bay door, but it's not at
>>>>>> street
>>>>>> level so we'll have to build a big ramp to get vehicles in.  More
>>>>>> time and
>>>>>> money spent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With all the negative things out of the way, here's a simple list of
>>>>>> all
>>>>>> the things I really like about each space.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> W 7th:
>>>>>> - Big ceilings and open space make me feel like I can build anything
>>>>>> - Pretty good parking
>>>>>> - Right next to Home Depot (for supplies and for advertising events)
>>>>>> - 16 foot roll up door to get big projects in and out
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1010 Grant:
>>>>>> - Space is already divided into offices and work space
>>>>>> - Has an entry area that may be more welcoming to new visitors
>>>>>> rather than
>>>>>> dumping them right into a dirty shop
>>>>>> - Probably enough street parking
>>>>>> - Park right across the street
>>>>>> - Right off West 11th
>>>>>> - Kitchen area
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Mr. Clif<EMAIL HIDDEN>    
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm sorry, I don't really know which one I would like better, and
>>>>>>> yes I
>>>>>>> might have subconsciously worded it that way. However those are the
>>>>>>> facts
>>>>>>> as I know them. I do have a call into the planning department to
>>>>>>> double
>>>>>>> check the noise ordnance.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway they have a lot of simularities I know you like 1010 
>>>>>>> Grant, and
>>>>>>> Darrel likes W 7th. I could be happy with either I think.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         What about the rest of us?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         Clif
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cord Slatton wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sounds like you are pushing hard for the w. 7th....? That email
>>>>>>>> you just
>>>>>>>> sent is worded to push people towards it.
>>>>>>>> On Sep 16, 2013 1:13 PM, "Mr. Clif"<EMAIL HIDDEN>    wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     So I think we should take an informal poll on how we feel 
>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>> our two
>>>>>>>>> top spaces, which seem to be the W 7th, and 1010 Grant spaces.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> They are the same square footage, and probably around the same
>>>>>>>>> price, but
>>>>>>>>> the 1010 Grant space is carved up in to lots of office space, and
>>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> a nose limit after ten. The insulation is probably good on both
>>>>>>>>> buildings.
>>>>>>>>> The W7th one has gas heat and high ceilings, and the 1010 Grant
>>>>>>>>> space has
>>>>>>>>> lower ceilings but electric? heat So would the heating bill be a
>>>>>>>>> wash? We
>>>>>>>>> have some example amounts for the W 7th place at least. The 1010
>>>>>>>>> grant
>>>>>>>>> space may have more walk by traffic but not sure if it's the
>>>>>>>>> people you
>>>>>>>>> want. The W 7th place is across the street from Home Depot.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What do you guys think? Should we take a straw poll?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>         Clif
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mr. Clif wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     Hi Gang,
>>>>>>>>>> I got the rest of the questions answered. here they are:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1010 Grant Qs
>>>>>>>>>>         Can we move walls? -- Yes.
>>>>>>>>>>         Maximum repair costs we would be responsible for? -- Yes
>>>>>>>>>> we can cap
>>>>>>>>>> it, eg. Negotiable.
>>>>>>>>>>             Modified Gross; Would consider triple net as a 
>>>>>>>>>> way of
>>>>>>>>>> reducing
>>>>>>>>>> costs to both parties.
>>>>>>>>>>         Will it remain up for sale? -- Only until someone 
>>>>>>>>>> rents it.
>>>>>>>>>>         What are the options on the lease term? -- 1 year; would
>>>>>>>>>> consider 6
>>>>>>>>>> mo.
>>>>>>>>>>         How is it zoned? -- S-C/C-2 (From Rick)
>>>>>>>>>>         Thoughts on late night noise limits? -- It has filled
>>>>>>>>>> Cinder block
>>>>>>>>>> construction.
>>>>>>>>>>             If you strategically place the noisy tools it might
>>>>>>>>>> help.
>>>>>>>>>>             The Realtor believes the 10 PM noise ordinance does
>>>>>>>>>> apply. We
>>>>>>>>>> need to double check on this.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Mr. Clif wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Hi Gang,
>>>>>>>>>>> Well I composed my list of questions and called them today 
>>>>>>>>>>> but the
>>>>>>>>>>> Realtor in charge, is not around until next Monday. I did get a
>>>>>>>>>>> couple
>>>>>>>>>>> of answers though.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 1010 Grant Qs
>>>>>>>>>>>         Can we move walls? -- Yes.
>>>>>>>>>>>         Maximum repair costs we would be responsible for? -- NA
>>>>>>>>>>>         Will it remain up for sale? -- Until someone rents it.
>>>>>>>>>>>         What are the options on the lease term? 6 Mo? -- NA
>>>>>>>>>>>         How is it zoned? -- S-C/C-2 (From Rick)
>>>>>>>>>>>         Thoughts on late night noise limits? -- NA
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday we should get the rest of the NAs.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>         Ciao!
>>>>>>>>>>>         Clif
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Mr. Clif wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>     I think you guys were going to send me the questions so I
>>>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>>>>>> forget any. :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>         Clif
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Rick Osgood wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>     Sam, most of the walls in the building can be moved and 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> management
>>>>>>>>>>>>> company says that's ok for us to do.  So we do have some good
>>>>>>>>>>>>> options for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reconfiguring the space.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clif, are you sending questions over to the management
>>>>>>>>>>>>> company?  Did
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> want me or someone else to do that?  Do you remember all 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rick
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Foster<EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>       I couldn't make the viewing as it turned out, but from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the location
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look of the place it might be a winner. I think in any 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> space we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> balance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> making arbitrary amounts of noise at any time of day with 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> location. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> floor plan does look a bit funky, but maybe some of those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> walls are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough to (re)move? Either way, it checks my "need 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clean and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quiet work" box.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do I understand the whole building is up for sale though?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What's the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> length of the lease and is that a concern? It would suck to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spend
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> money refurbing and getting moved in only to have to move 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> again
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new owner makes new plans. Or perhaps the owner just needs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> money
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flowing again and would take it off the market if we sign a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lease.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Sam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/12/2013 11:30 AM, Mr. Clif wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>       Here are my pictures of the 1010 Grant space, they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unsorted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I might be able to get to that later... :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.eugeneweb.com/******gallery2/v/clif/Geeky/EMS/****<http://www.eugeneweb.com/****gallery2/v/clif/Geeky/EMS/****> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1010Grant/<http://www.**eugeneweb.com/**gallery2/v/**
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clif/Geeky/EMS/**1010Grant/<http://www.eugeneweb.com/**gallery2/v/clif/Geeky/EMS/**1010Grant/> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.**eugeneweb.com/**gallery2/v/clif/**Geeky/EMS/** 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1010Grant/<http://eugeneweb.com/gallery2/v/clif/**Geeky/EMS/1010Grant/> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.**eugeneweb.com/gallery2/v/clif/**Geeky/EMS/1010Grant/<http://www.eugeneweb.com/gallery2/v/clif/Geeky/EMS/1010Grant/> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>           Clif
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rick Osgood wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>       When we looked at this space yesterday I got the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feeling that we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> liked this space.  I just got a general good feeling from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all thought it could work really well for EMS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone have anything negative to say about this 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> space?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Personally,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the only things I can think of are having an apartment on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> top of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> space
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and being right next to a residential house.  Other than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this space.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>       
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