[EMS Discuss] [EMS Committee] [EMS Board] Agenda items, and Wallis walk through

Mr. Clif clif at eugeneweb.com
Tue Mar 4 21:36:25 PST 2014


Hi Gang,

Since the board voted to submit an LOI for the wallis space today, I am 
going to try to arrange for a showing of the Wallis space tomorrow. Ben 
and Tom are interested at least. Ben can't make it after 2 if I 
understood correctly so I will suggest to the Realtor that it be between 
10 am and 1pm. How does that sound and who else is interested?

Clif

On 03/04/2014 08:27 PM, Benjamin Hallert wrote:
> Very good!  I don't know if there are any other collaborative map 
> tools that might be better, but I was certainly attracted to the "no 
> account required to contribute" aspect of this one.
>
> (I have indeed read Anatthem, and it is a particularly singular book 
> in scope of creativity. That moment when the color of the laser was 
> "wrong"...)
> - Ben
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 8:25 PM, Bob Miller <kbob at jogger-egg.com 
> <mailto:kbob at jogger-egg.com>> wrote:
>
>     Et voila! I reload ze page, and ze zoom, zhe eez made wider. C'est
>     magnefique!
>
>     (Has anyone read Anathem by Neal Stephenson? A Frenchman joins a
>     group of humanoid aliens, and when he sees their new device, he
>     exclaims, "Magnefique!" The device is then known as a monyafeek for
>     the rest of the book.)
>
>     On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Ben Hallert <ben at hallert.net> wrote:
>     > Whoa, you do live out there! I haven't discovered a way to set
>     the default
>     > zoom, if anyone else wants to take a shot at it the admin
>     password is
>     > 'garglehorse'.
>     >
>     > Ben
>     >
>     > - Ben
>     >
>     >
>     > On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 8:00 PM, Bob Miller <kbob at jogger-egg.com>
>     wrote:
>     >>
>     >> I have added my house. Can you please change the default zoom
>     level
>     >> so that it's on-screen? (It's 15 miles southwest of Eugene.)
>     >>
>     >> On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Ben Hallert <ben at hallert.net>
>     wrote:
>     >> > Per Ellery's excellent idea to get a visualization of where our
>     >> > membership
>     >> > is, I've created a example ZeeMaps map that we should all be
>     able to add
>     >> > pushpins to without needing to log in. Could we perhaps send
>     something
>     >> > like
>     >> > this out to the larger distribution with a request for
>     participation as
>     >> > part
>     >> > of gathering this data? I suggest some basic text along the
>     lines of:
>     >> >
>     >> > -----------
>     >> > The Board and Committee To Embiggen Our Space is looking for
>     information
>     >> > to
>     >> > help choose our future location. As part of this, we'd like
>     to get an
>     >> > idea
>     >> > of where everyone lives or thinks they'll be commuting from most
>     >> > frequently.
>     >> > If you would like your location to be taken into
>     consideration in
>     >> > determining where we'll go next, please visit the following
>     link and
>     >> > click
>     >> > 'Additions' then 'Add Marker - Simple' and follow the
>     instructions to
>     >> > enter
>     >> > a pushpin. Be as specific or as general as you want, we're
>     just looking
>     >> > for
>     >> > general location data to help with planning.
>     >> >
>     >> > http://bit.ly/1i6zKvp
>     >> >
>     >> > Thanks!
>     >> > -----------
>     >> >
>     >> > This way we can hopefully get a basic idea of where everyone
>     is coming
>     >> > from
>     >> > that might help define the ideal geofence.
>     >> >
>     >> > Thoughts?
>     >> >
>     >> > - Ben
>     >> >
>     >> > - Ben
>     >> >
>     >> >
>     >> > On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Ellery Weber
>     <ellery at elleryweber.com>
>     >> > wrote:
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Off the top of my head:
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> · It needs to be affordable.
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> It does make me a bit anxious to jump in feet first into
>     something that
>     >> >> is
>     >> >> more than double our current rent. I know we have some
>     people who have
>     >> >> volunteered to help out by donating more to help with rent.
>     I know that
>     >> >> many
>     >> >> people did that at the McKinley space as well, so I'm
>     totally fine with
>     >> >> doing that again. It just makes me nervous, but that's not a
>     big deal
>     >> >> in the
>     >> >> long run if we have supporters. I do think that this
>     committee and the
>     >> >> board
>     >> >> needs to make this a requirement and set hard numbers. A
>     hard look at
>     >> >> member
>     >> >> runoff, utility fluctuation, income fluctuation, and
>     committed members
>     >> >> donating extra to make ends meet needs to happen before this
>     number can
>     >> >> be
>     >> >> set.
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> · It needs to be accessible
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> It would be neat to see where all our current members lived,
>     and try to
>     >> >> find a location that is a mid-point for all of them. That
>     only takes
>     >> >> into
>     >> >> account current members, so there is selection bias, but
>     would be
>     >> >> interesting nonetheless. I think our current area is good.
>     West Eugene
>     >> >> tends
>     >> >> to be more industrial, so we could fit in better. Being
>     close to
>     >> >> residential
>     >> >> is problematic, so the fact that there is an apartment
>     attached to the
>     >> >> Wallis unit is a cause for concern for me, but depending on
>     the tenant
>     >> >> may
>     >> >> be a non-issue.
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> · It needs to have the proper resources available for EMS to be
>     >> >> useful (and to grow!)
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Mostly, here I'm talking about shop space, office space,
>     power, and
>     >> >> other
>     >> >> amenities that are a requirement for a working shop to
>     function.
>     >> >> Below, I
>     >> >> use the word 'plenty'. This is very subjective, but I
>     believe a fixed
>     >> >> number
>     >> >> should be decided upon as a minimum. Just throwing it out
>     there, but
>     >> >> the
>     >> >> 2000 sq foot total that was proposed by Weston sounds good
>     on paper. It
>     >> >> would depend on shape and how much was the office space vs
>     shop space.
>     >> >>
>     >> >> This list, in my mind, includes (not exhaustive):
>     >> >>
>     >> >> 1. Plenty of shop space
>     >> >>
>     >> >> 2. Plenty of office/clean space
>     >> >>
>     >> >> 3. Bathroom
>     >> >>
>     >> >> 4. Utility sink
>     >> >>
>     >> >> 5. 3 phase power
>     >> >>
>     >> >> 6. Plenty of power outlets
>     >> >>
>     >> >> 7. Flexibility to make minor adjustments (tape off areas of the
>     >> >> floor, run network jacks, paint?)
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> · It needs to be secure
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> There are a few places I've seen that are in pretty sketchy
>     areas of
>     >> >> Eugene. I'd have to look through the wiki again to find
>     which ones, but
>     >> >> I
>     >> >> know at least one of them was in a place that I wouldn't
>     really feel
>     >> >> comfortable leaving my car parked out front let alone leave
>     expensive
>     >> >> tools
>     >> >> inside. Security for members tools is a high importance if
>     we want to
>     >> >> try
>     >> >> and build a community workshop and expect people to feel
>     comfortable
>     >> >> leaving
>     >> >> their stuff at the space.
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Again, this is just off the top of my head and fairly general.
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> EW
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Ps, I only proofread this once, so please forgive any
>     >> >> errors/misspellings
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> From: Mr. Clif [mailto:clif at eugeneweb.com]
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2014 4:21 PM
>     >> >> To: Ellery Weber
>     >> >> Cc: 'board'; 'Committee'
>     >> >> Subject: Re: [EMS Board] [EMS Committee] Agenda items, and
>     Wallis walk
>     >> >> through
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Those are all good talking points but it's up to everyone to
>     share
>     >> >> their
>     >> >> view points on this. What are yours Ellery?
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Clif
>     >> >>
>     >> >> On 03/04/2014 04:09 PM, Ellery Weber wrote:
>     >> >>
>     >> >> These are excellent points, Weston -- thank you for bringing
>     them up.
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Based on what we want, we can look at up to $1000/mo, and at
>     least 2000
>     >> >> sq
>     >> >> ft - is that correct?
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> EW
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> From: Committee
>     [mailto:committee-bounces at eugenemakerspace.com] On
>     >> >> Behalf
>     >> >> Of Weston Turner
>     >> >> Sent: Monday, March 3, 2014 11:55 PM
>     >> >> To: Rick Osgood
>     >> >> Cc: board; Committee
>     >> >> Subject: Re: [EMS Committee] [EMS Board] Agenda items, and
>     Wallis walk
>     >> >> through
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> I want to clarify what my vision for EMS is and how that
>     informs the
>     >> >> decisions I have made that affect the space. I'd like to
>     also point out
>     >> >> my
>     >> >> observations of how our space is used in order to justify
>     what we have
>     >> >> and
>     >> >> have not done as an organization.
>     >> >>
>     >> >> In my mind, the most important thing that EMS provides to
>     its members
>     >> >> is a
>     >> >> community workshop. Therefore the most important thing I can
>     do is make
>     >> >> sure
>     >> >> the shop is well stocked with useful tools, is organized
>     such that
>     >> >> those
>     >> >> tools are readily usable, and is clean so that members can
>     work on
>     >> >> their
>     >> >> projects without having to clean up other member's messes
>     first.
>     >> >>
>     >> >> To this end, I think we have accomplished two of those three
>     goals, the
>     >> >> shop is now clean (although member storage and the parts
>     area could be
>     >> >> more
>     >> >> tidy), but the shop working areas are very clean and usable.
>     We have a
>     >> >> wide
>     >> >> assortment of tools that are in good working order. In fact,
>     based on a
>     >> >> maker-shop book that Mark showed me, we are a mature shop,
>     only lacking
>     >> >> a
>     >> >> couple of more advanced tools such as a laser
>     cutter/engraver and CNC
>     >> >> machinery. Where I think we have the most room for
>     improvement is shop
>     >> >> organization, such as making tools and parts more easily
>     locatable, and
>     >> >> the
>     >> >> organization of space itself so that it is more easily
>     cleaned and
>     >> >> moved
>     >> >> about in. There are many things we can do to improve
>     usability: place
>     >> >> large
>     >> >> tools and equipment, tables, and other difficult to move
>     things on
>     >> >> lockable
>     >> >> casters so they can be easily pushed around by a single
>     person, create
>     >> >> a
>     >> >> parts database so that memeber's can determine what parts we
>     have and
>     >> >> where
>     >> >> they are located, do the same thing for our tools, make
>     outlines of
>     >> >> tools
>     >> >> where they are stored so they can easily be placed back
>     where the came
>     >> >> from,
>     >> >> etc..
>     >> >>
>     >> >> The other focus of our group is community outreach, and I
>     maintain that
>     >> >> if
>     >> >> the community can come in to our shop on open hack nights
>     and with the
>     >> >> assistance of members, use the shop and learn how to use
>     tools and make
>     >> >> stuff, then that mission is primarily fulfilled. An added
>     function is
>     >> >> for
>     >> >> EMS to go out into the community and participate in events
>     for outreach
>     >> >> and
>     >> >> to let people know who we are and what we do. By the way,
>     kudos to Mark
>     >> >> for
>     >> >> putting on an excellent panel discussion on Kickstarter. I
>     learned a
>     >> >> lot,
>     >> >> and thought everyone did an excellent job. The event was
>     well attended,
>     >> >> and
>     >> >> I thought people came away with their questions answered and
>     with good
>     >> >> insight into how to make Kickstarter work for them. Thank
>     you to the
>     >> >> panelists and volunteers who helped put the event on as well.
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Regarding moving to a new space, we should only consider a
>     particular
>     >> >> new
>     >> >> space if it will increase our capacity for making, by
>     immediately and
>     >> >> with
>     >> >> little to no improvement required provide for more tools
>     (laser cutter,
>     >> >> welders, plasma cutter, CNC, etc.), motivate more people to
>     join due to
>     >> >> having a more functional space, and encourage added
>     membership and foot
>     >> >> traffic due to a better location and street presence (read:
>     a more
>     >> >> central
>     >> >> location). We also have to be able to afford the move-in
>     costs and
>     >> >> first
>     >> >> several months of operation at current membership levels.
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Regarding the notion that we are going to move into a space
>     of 3X the
>     >> >> cost
>     >> >> and radically change the model of operation of the shop in
>     order to
>     >> >> fund it,
>     >> >> i.e., by teaching classes, I am skeptical that we can pull
>     this off due
>     >> >> to
>     >> >> the following reasons: most members have day jobs that
>     consume the
>     >> >> majority
>     >> >> of their time and energy, I/we would be reluctant to pour a
>     tremendous
>     >> >> amount of additional energy into converting EMS from a
>     community shop
>     >> >> into a
>     >> >> business (which is essentially what a non-free school is) with
>     >> >> potentially
>     >> >> very demanding customers (students). I do envision EMS
>     putting on
>     >> >> classes,
>     >> >> but not at the scale at which it would cover the larger
>     portion of our
>     >> >> budget. We have thus far not held classes at the shop, and
>     we need to
>     >> >> do so
>     >> >> in order to work out the process of holding them and to
>     gauge levels of
>     >> >> participation.
>     >> >>
>     >> >> In light of these reasons, and the fact that the shop for
>     the majority
>     >> >> of
>     >> >> the time goes totally unutilized, I am not compelled to
>     settle for a
>     >> >> space
>     >> >> that does not satisfy the goals mentioned above and
>     additionally the
>     >> >> following requirements:
>     >> >>
>     >> >> - The space shall be at least twice the size of our current
>     space and
>     >> >> no
>     >> >> more than twice the cost. Read: that as less than or equal
>     to 2X the
>     >> >> current
>     >> >> cost and greater than or equal to 2X the space...
>     >> >>
>     >> >> - The space shall be partitioned roughly equally between
>     shop and
>     >> >> office
>     >> >> space, with the office space not exceeding the size of the
>     shop. Maybe
>     >> >> 1/3
>     >> >> office and 2/3 shop would be the most unequal partition
>     allowable.
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> - The space shall be accessible, i.e, conveniently located
>     so that it
>     >> >> is a
>     >> >> compelling hang out spot and readily used by members without
>     a long
>     >> >> commute.
>     >> >> Read: no less centrally located than we already are.
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> - The shop space shall have at least one overhead door.
>     >> >>
>     >> >> - The space shall have utilities in place to make it
>     immediately
>     >> >> usable,
>     >> >> i.e. electrical outlets 120/240V and preferable 3 phase
>     available.
>     >> >>
>     >> >> - The space shall have a bathroom and a utility sink.
>     >> >>
>     >> >> - The space shall be easily secured in order to protect
>     member's tools.
>     >> >>
>     >> >> - The space shall permit a flexible lease arrangement,
>     ideally month to
>     >> >> month, with 6 months, and a year lease being less optimal.
>     That way we
>     >> >> can
>     >> >> recover from a failure to grow into a larger space without
>     being
>     >> >> scarred by
>     >> >> legal troubles from an inability to meet the lease agreement.
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> I encourage you all to add to, these requirements (or
>     challenge them),
>     >> >> and
>     >> >> for that matter, add to, question, and challenge the ideas
>     put forward
>     >> >> in
>     >> >> this mail in general (as it's just my 2 cents, but maybe
>     closer to a
>     >> >> nickel
>     >> >> or a dime at this length :))
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Regards,
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Weston
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 7:43 PM, Weston Turner
>     <wstnturner at gmail.com>
>     >> >> wrote:
>     >> >>
>     >> >> I'd like to discuss whether we want to have a presence at
>     these two
>     >> >> events
>     >> >> at the UO this Saturday and the Saturday after (thanks to
>     Mark for
>     >> >> forwarding these events to Discuss):
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>     >> >> From: Brandy Todd <btodd at uoregon.edu>
>     >> >> Date: Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 11:04 AM
>     >> >> Subject: Science Fair & Queen's Ball Call for Presenters!
>     >> >> To: spicescience at uoregon.edu
>     >> >> Cc: Ariana Evensen <evensen at uoregon.edu>, UO STEM CORE
>     >> >> <stemcore at uoregon.edu>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Greetings All,
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> It Science Fair time once again! And once again, we'd love
>     to have
>     >> >> your
>     >> >> group host an activity table at the event. BUT WAIT! There's
>     MORE!
>     >> >> This
>     >> >> year as part of my SLUG Queen "Rain" I am holding a
>     fundraiser for
>     >> >> SPICE and
>     >> >> we'd love to have volunteers/participants for that as well. All
>     >> >> proceeds
>     >> >> will go to the SPICE program to support girls in SCIENCE!
>     Details
>     >> >> below
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Science Fair - March 8th 11am-3pm - Willamette Atrium -
>     Would your
>     >> >> group
>     >> >> like to host an activity table? Would your members like to
>     volunteer
>     >> >> to
>     >> >> help out/judge? Please let us know. This is a super fun
>     event for all
>     >> >> ages
>     >> >> and a great way to showcase the wonderful outreach your
>     program does.
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Slug Queen's Pi-Pie Gala Ball Extravaganza! - March 15th
>     7pm-11pm in
>     >> >> the
>     >> >> Willamette Atrium. Imaging the Fall Science Open House, but for
>     >> >> adults!
>     >> >> We're going to have tons of fun science, music dancing (and
>     no kids ;-)
>     >> >> !).
>     >> >> We need volunteers for all aspects of the event and groups
>     to host
>     >> >> activities for attendees. We've already nailed down
>     microscope making
>     >> >> and
>     >> >> Liquid Nitrogen Ice Cream/Dry Ice Root Beer Floats. Do you
>     have a fun
>     >> >> demo
>     >> >> or activity you'd like to show off for an adult audience
>     (get as racy
>     >> >> as you
>     >> >> like)? This is the event for you. Featuring music by Accordions
>     >> >> Anonymous.
>     >> >> Poster Attached. Please share with your friends and if you
>     don't want
>     >> >> to
>     >> >> present, then come and have fun as a guest!
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> https://www.facebook.com/events/226564254198673/
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> If we want to participate, we need to call out for
>     volunteers and
>     >> >> figure
>     >> >> out what we want to have at our table. I'd like to see us
>     there, so
>     >> >> I'll
>     >> >> step up to volunteer.
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Rick Osgood
>     <rick at richardosgood.com>
>     >> >> wrote:
>     >> >>
>     >> >> First, I like all of the points Weston has called out in his
>     last email
>     >> >> in
>     >> >> the thread. That's the kind of thing I was talking about. If
>     that was
>     >> >> decided already and posted somewhere before then I'm sorry I
>     either
>     >> >> missed
>     >> >> it or forgot.
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Second, I didn't mean to demean Clif's efforts. I know he
>     put more
>     >> >> work
>     >> >> into finding the new spaces than anyone else likely did. I do
>     >> >> appreciate
>     >> >> that. I am just trying to get us to make sure we know what
>     we are
>     >> >> doing
>     >> >> before putting ourselves in the same situation as before.
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Third, I should mention that to begin with I was all for the
>     "bite the
>     >> >> bullet" approach with the Wilson space that we missed out
>     on. Now that
>     >> >> I
>     >> >> see where that lead us, I think it would be wise to try another
>     >> >> approach
>     >> >> this time. That's what I'm getting at.
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Rick
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 6:42 PM, Kassie
>     <kassandra_kaplan at yahoo.com>
>     >> >> wrote:
>     >> >>
>     >> >> I have to say that while I don't like the situation we are
>     in and the
>     >> >> pressure behind it, I believe cliff is trying his best to do
>     his job
>     >> >> and he
>     >> >> has being put in a situation where his work amounts to
>     nothing because
>     >> >> of
>     >> >> our response time. We have lost good spaces because we could
>     not react
>     >> >> and
>     >> >> for Clif that means countless memos and conversation add to
>     nothing.
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> At one point, everyone was driven to move into a new space
>     and it was I
>     >> >> that felt "under the gun" to except the need to make the
>     leap of faith.
>     >> >> I
>     >> >> hear people say "move or die" and that when we moved into
>     our current
>     >> >> space
>     >> >> you had to just "hope it would all work out". While I'm glad
>     we are
>     >> >> being
>     >> >> more realistic and metered in our approach, I do take
>     exception to
>     >> >> people
>     >> >> complaining about what they were doing a few months ago.
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> I think we need we need to go a step farther then what mark is
>     >> >> suggesting.
>     >> >> I think we need to create a protocol for finding, assessing,
>     applying,
>     >> >> and
>     >> >> renting a new space.
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> It would include all our "wants and dreams" but it should
>     also include
>     >> >> algorithm that will put us in a space quickly. While, it's
>     important to
>     >> >> know
>     >> >> what we want and can afford, we need to be able to get it.
>     There is no
>     >> >> point debating a place if we can't actually get the place.
>     In fact, I
>     >> >> suggest we should suspend looking for a new place till we
>     get this
>     >> >> protocol
>     >> >> in place or those looking for spaces are wasting their time.
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Kassie
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Sent from my iPhone
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> On Mar 3, 2014, at 5:41 PM, "Mr. Clif" <clif at eugeneweb.com>
>     wrote:
>     >> >>
>     >> >> The reason I'm putting pressure on us is because a few of us
>     have
>     >> >> already
>     >> >> agreed that $1200 would be dooable, and that this place will
>     be gone
>     >> >> this
>     >> >> week. Also we have been skipping space committee meetings
>     and board
>     >> >> meetings
>     >> >> when I had a decent list of agenda items to catch up on. But
>     without a
>     >> >> clear
>     >> >> option in front of us I guess as a group we didn't feel the
>     need to
>     >> >> work
>     >> >> these details out. Now that we have something it's too late
>     to work
>     >> >> them
>     >> >> out. Sigh...
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Clif
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Ok then I guess there is no point in looking at the Wallis
>     place this
>     >> >> week.
>     >> >>
>     >> >> On 03/03/2014 04:50 PM, Rick Osgood wrote:
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Well put, Mark.
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Mark Danburg-Wyld
>     >> >> <danburgwyld at gmail.com>
>     >> >> wrote:
>     >> >>
>     >> >> I agree with that, Rick - not that I think Clif is trying to
>     put anyone
>     >> >> under the gun, but that we need some consensus before we can
>     try to go
>     >> >> forward with any particular site. Seems to me that the best
>     approach is
>     >> >> to
>     >> >> recognize we will likely be in a "stretch" position when we
>     do move to
>     >> >> a
>     >> >> larger space, and also to recognize there will be some
>     trade-offs to
>     >> >> consider in terms of location and features. But give that,
>     can we
>     >> >> strive to
>     >> >> reach a consensus around something like:
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> 1. no more than $X/month
>     >> >>
>     >> >> 2. at least Y sq. ft.
>     >> >> 3. no fewer than three of the following benefits:
>     >> >> a. multiple bays,
>     >> >> b. 3 phase,
>     >> >> c. etc.
>     >> >>
>     >> >> 4. none of the following show-stoppers:
>     >> >>
>     >> >> a. Springfield address
>     >> >>
>     >> >> b. etc.
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Then, once we have that level of clarity around what we
>     want, when the
>     >> >> next right space comes online, we'll be positioned to jump.
>     If after
>     >> >> some
>     >> >> period of time, we find that our requirements do not overlap
>     with
>     >> >> reality,
>     >> >> revisit and adjust, repeat...
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Otherwise, I think, we'll keep ending up with 'this space looks
>     >> >> good'/'feels like a rush to decide' kind of debate.
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Rick Osgood
>     <rick at richardosgood.com>
>     >> >> wrote:
>     >> >>
>     >> >> I would simply like to see EMS as an organization come to some
>     >> >> consensus
>     >> >> as to what it is willing to accept as "affordable". EMS
>     needs to
>     >> >> figure out
>     >> >> how much money we have and then decide how much risk we are
>     willing to
>     >> >> accept by making a commitment over that amount. This is
>     really about
>     >> >> two
>     >> >> things. Affordability and Risk.
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Clif, the way you are pushing this makes me feel you are
>     attempting to
>     >> >> put
>     >> >> everyone under the gun and make them feel pressured to sign
>     a new lease
>     >> >> hope
>     >> >> everything magically works out. That might work, but in my
>     opinion
>     >> >> it's not
>     >> >> the way an three year old organization should operate. It's
>     sloppy and
>     >> >> unnecessary. I think it's unfair for you to push that kind
>     of pressure
>     >> >> on
>     >> >> every one else. If there are a bunch of members who are want
>     to take
>     >> >> this
>     >> >> approach again then I'll retract my last statement but I
>     didn't get the
>     >> >> feeling anyone wanted to go through that again. Why don't we
>     learn
>     >> >> from our
>     >> >> mistakes instead of repeating them?
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Let's say we find a space for $1200/month today. Then what?
>     We still
>     >> >> have to decide if we can "afford it" by paying out of our
>     savings,
>     >> >> making up
>     >> >> the difference, and accepting the risk that it might take us
>     a while to
>     >> >> actually start breaking even again. How about we decide what
>     that
>     >> >> acceptable risk level is now and then approach this
>     intelligently,
>     >> >> rather
>     >> >> than waiting until the last minute again and making everyone
>     feel
>     >> >> pressured?
>     >> >> We tried the "jump in with two feet" approach last time and
>     it didn't
>     >> >> work
>     >> >> because we didn't have a clear definition of what level of
>     risk we are
>     >> >> willing to accept. What makes you think the result will be any
>     >> >> different
>     >> >> this time around when we still haven't figured out the
>     acceptable risk?
>     >> >> Let's not waste the renter or the realtor's time again.
>     Let's figure
>     >> >> out
>     >> >> what we are comfortable with first, then then when it comes
>     time to
>     >> >> pull the
>     >> >> trigger we won't be able to hesitate on the financial issues
>     because we
>     >> >> will
>     >> >> have already made that decision.
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Mr. Clif
>     <clif at eugeneweb.com> wrote:
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Well ok can we afford anything more than we are paying now?
>     One answer
>     >> >> is
>     >> >> no, it will put us in the red. On the other hand If everyone
>     that
>     >> >> pledged
>     >> >> extra is still good for that then that's another $500. So
>     its close.
>     >> >> But
>     >> >> then we will have utils and other extra stuff so still no,
>     can't do it.
>     >> >> You
>     >> >> could wait for 1500 sq foot space or a 2000 sq ft space but
>     they will
>     >> >> be in
>     >> >> random places that we don't really like etc... Then you
>     could stay in
>     >> >> them
>     >> >> for a year each and slowly work up to bigger spaces. Or we
>     could just
>     >> >> go
>     >> >> for it and save ourselves a couple of moves and the years
>     flying by.
>     >> >> Because
>     >> >> if we wait longer than a few days this space will be Gone...
>     >> >>
>     >> >> In summary, all we have to do is wring our hands and drag
>     our feet and
>     >> >> the
>     >> >> spaces will just evaporate right before our very eyes. ;-)
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Clif
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> On 03/03/2014 03:07 PM, Rick Osgood wrote:
>     >> >>
>     >> >> I think before we start scheduling a walk through and
>     appointments and
>     >> >> bugging the realtor, I'd like to see EMS decide on solid
>     numbers. I
>     >> >> think
>     >> >> Clif is right that it's a perceptual problem and different
>     people think
>     >> >> that
>     >> >> different amounts sound acceptable. That's something that is
>     bound to
>     >> >> happen as a community but as an single organization we have
>     to come to
>     >> >> some
>     >> >> agreement. I think the board, or perhaps this committee,
>     should vote
>     >> >> to
>     >> >> approve numbers for Rent and Utilities and then we will only
>     schedule
>     >> >> appointments for places that we believe meet those
>     requirements.
>     >> >> Otherwise
>     >> >> we are likely to do the exact same thing as last time. We
>     can tell the
>     >> >> Realtor straight up to only look at spaces that meet these
>     >> >> requirements.
>     >> >> Then she will know that we won't sit on our hands for a
>     month trying to
>     >> >> figure out where the money is going to come from.
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> I think it's really important that we learn our lesson from
>     this last
>     >> >> experience and do it right this time around. $1200 does
>     sound much
>     >> >> better
>     >> >> than $1400 in my opinion but can we actually afford that? I
>     have no
>     >> >> idea.
>     >> >> Does anyone have any idea? Again, I'd like to see some solid
>     numbers
>     >> >> coming
>     >> >> back from the board so we all know exactly where we draw the
>     line and
>     >> >> we
>     >> >> don't sit around trying to make a decision. We make that
>     decision
>     >> >> first,
>     >> >> then we can jump on a space immediately.
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Mr. Clif
>     <clif at eugeneweb.com> wrote:
>     >> >>
>     >> >> This is an excellent question Bob,
>     >> >>
>     >> >> I think part of the (perceptual) problem with the Wilson
>     space was we
>     >> >> didn't have the money in
>     >> >>
>     >> >> _______________________________________________
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Committee mailing list
>     >> >> Committee at eugenemakerspace.com
>     >> >> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/committee
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> _______________________________________________
>     >> >> Board mailing list
>     >> >> Board at eugenemakerspace.com
>     >> >>
>     http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.board
>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> _______________________________________________
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Board mailing list
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Board at eugenemakerspace.com
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.board
>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> _______________________________________________
>     >> >> Committee mailing list
>     >> >> Committee at eugenemakerspace.com
>     >> >> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/committee
>     >> >>
>     >> >
>     >> >
>     >> > _______________________________________________
>     >> > Board mailing list
>     >> > Board at eugenemakerspace.com
>     >> >
>     http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.board
>
>     >> >
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> --
>     >> Bob Miller K<bob>
>     >> kbob at jogger-egg.com
>     >
>     >
>
>
>
>     -- 
>     Bob Miller K<bob>
>     kbob at jogger-egg.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Committee mailing list
> Committee at eugenemakerspace.com
> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/committee

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