[EMS Discuss] [EMS Committee] [EMS Board] Agenda items, and Wallis walk through

Mr. Clif clif at eugeneweb.com
Tue Mar 4 22:05:37 PST 2014


Ok and he just wrote me back that he also has appointments but can show 
it for 30 mins

Where: 115 Wallis Suite C near the back. Off of 1st st W of Senica
When: Tomorrow Wednesday Morning  from *10:45 to 11:15.***

Everyone who wants to see it first hand is welcome, please show up a few 
minutes early.

     See ya, :-)
     Clif

On 03/04/2014 09:38 PM, Benjamin Hallert wrote:
> I have an 11:30 and a 5 minute 10:00, I'm otherwise free in that window.
> - Ben
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 9:36 PM, Mr. Clif <clif at eugeneweb.com 
> <mailto:clif at eugeneweb.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hi Gang,
>
>     Since the board voted to submit an LOI for the wallis space today,
>     I am going to try to arrange for a showing of the Wallis space
>     tomorrow. Ben and Tom are interested at least. Ben can't make it
>     after 2 if I understood correctly so I will suggest to the Realtor
>     that it be between 10 am and 1pm. How does that sound and who else
>     is interested?
>
>     Clif
>
>     On 03/04/2014 08:27 PM, Benjamin Hallert wrote:
>>     Very good!  I don't know if there are any other collaborative map
>>     tools that might be better, but I was certainly attracted to the
>>     "no account required to contribute" aspect of this one.
>>
>>     (I have indeed read Anatthem, and it is a particularly singular
>>     book in scope of creativity. That moment when the color of the
>>     laser was "wrong"…)
>>     - Ben
>>
>>
>>     On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 8:25 PM, Bob Miller <kbob at jogger-egg.com
>>     <mailto:kbob at jogger-egg.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         Et voila! I reload ze page, and ze zoom, zhe eez made wider.
>>         C'est magnefique!
>>
>>         (Has anyone read Anathem by Neal Stephenson? A Frenchman joins a
>>         group of humanoid aliens, and when he sees their new device, he
>>         exclaims, "Magnefique!" The device is then known as a
>>         monyafeek for
>>         the rest of the book.)
>>
>>         On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Ben Hallert <ben at hallert.net>
>>         wrote:
>>         > Whoa, you do live out there! I haven't discovered a way to
>>         set the default
>>         > zoom, if anyone else wants to take a shot at it the admin
>>         password is
>>         > 'garglehorse'.
>>         >
>>         > Ben
>>         >
>>         > - Ben
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 8:00 PM, Bob Miller
>>         <kbob at jogger-egg.com> wrote:
>>         >>
>>         >> I have added my house. Can you please change the default
>>         zoom level
>>         >> so that it's on-screen? (It's 15 miles southwest of Eugene.)
>>         >>
>>         >> On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Ben Hallert
>>         <ben at hallert.net> wrote:
>>         >> > Per Ellery's excellent idea to get a visualization of
>>         where our
>>         >> > membership
>>         >> > is, I've created a example ZeeMaps map that we should
>>         all be able to add
>>         >> > pushpins to without needing to log in. Could we perhaps
>>         send something
>>         >> > like
>>         >> > this out to the larger distribution with a request for
>>         participation as
>>         >> > part
>>         >> > of gathering this data? I suggest some basic text along
>>         the lines of:
>>         >> >
>>         >> > -----------
>>         >> > The Board and Committee To Embiggen Our Space is looking
>>         for information
>>         >> > to
>>         >> > help choose our future location. As part of this, we'd
>>         like to get an
>>         >> > idea
>>         >> > of where everyone lives or thinks they'll be commuting
>>         from most
>>         >> > frequently.
>>         >> > If you would like your location to be taken into
>>         consideration in
>>         >> > determining where we'll go next, please visit the
>>         following link and
>>         >> > click
>>         >> > 'Additions' then 'Add Marker - Simple' and follow the
>>         instructions to
>>         >> > enter
>>         >> > a pushpin. Be as specific or as general as you want,
>>         we're just looking
>>         >> > for
>>         >> > general location data to help with planning.
>>         >> >
>>         >> > http://bit.ly/1i6zKvp
>>         >> >
>>         >> > Thanks!
>>         >> > -----------
>>         >> >
>>         >> > This way we can hopefully get a basic idea of where
>>         everyone is coming
>>         >> > from
>>         >> > that might help define the ideal geofence.
>>         >> >
>>         >> > Thoughts?
>>         >> >
>>         >> > - Ben
>>         >> >
>>         >> > - Ben
>>         >> >
>>         >> >
>>         >> > On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Ellery Weber
>>         <ellery at elleryweber.com>
>>         >> > wrote:
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Off the top of my head:
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> · It needs to be affordable.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> It does make me a bit anxious to jump in feet first
>>         into something that
>>         >> >> is
>>         >> >> more than double our current rent. I know we have some
>>         people who have
>>         >> >> volunteered to help out by donating more to help with
>>         rent. I know that
>>         >> >> many
>>         >> >> people did that at the McKinley space as well, so I’m
>>         totally fine with
>>         >> >> doing that again. It just makes me nervous, but that’s
>>         not a big deal
>>         >> >> in the
>>         >> >> long run if we have supporters. I do think that this
>>         committee and the
>>         >> >> board
>>         >> >> needs to make this a requirement and set hard numbers.
>>         A hard look at
>>         >> >> member
>>         >> >> runoff, utility fluctuation, income fluctuation, and
>>         committed members
>>         >> >> donating extra to make ends meet needs to happen before
>>         this number can
>>         >> >> be
>>         >> >> set.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> · It needs to be accessible
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> It would be neat to see where all our current members
>>         lived, and try to
>>         >> >> find a location that is a mid-point for all of them.
>>         That only takes
>>         >> >> into
>>         >> >> account current members, so there is selection bias,
>>         but would be
>>         >> >> interesting nonetheless. I think our current area is
>>         good. West Eugene
>>         >> >> tends
>>         >> >> to be more industrial, so we could fit in better. Being
>>         close to
>>         >> >> residential
>>         >> >> is problematic, so the fact that there is an apartment
>>         attached to the
>>         >> >> Wallis unit is a cause for concern for me, but
>>         depending on the tenant
>>         >> >> may
>>         >> >> be a non-issue.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> · It needs to have the proper resources available for
>>         EMS to be
>>         >> >> useful (and to grow!)
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Mostly, here I’m talking about shop space, office
>>         space, power, and
>>         >> >> other
>>         >> >> amenities that are a requirement for a working shop to
>>         function.
>>         >> >> Below, I
>>         >> >> use the word ‘plenty’. This is very subjective, but I
>>         believe a fixed
>>         >> >> number
>>         >> >> should be decided upon as a minimum. Just throwing it
>>         out there, but
>>         >> >> the
>>         >> >> 2000 sq foot total that was proposed by Weston sounds
>>         good on paper. It
>>         >> >> would depend on shape and how much was the office space
>>         vs shop space.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> This list, in my mind, includes (not exhaustive):
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> 1. Plenty of shop space
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> 2. Plenty of office/clean space
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> 3. Bathroom
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> 4. Utility sink
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> 5. 3 phase power
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> 6. Plenty of power outlets
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> 7. Flexibility to make minor adjustments (tape off
>>         areas of the
>>         >> >> floor, run network jacks, paint?)
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> · It needs to be secure
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> There are a few places I’ve seen that are in pretty
>>         sketchy areas of
>>         >> >> Eugene. I’d have to look through the wiki again to find
>>         which ones, but
>>         >> >> I
>>         >> >> know at least one of them was in a place that I
>>         wouldn’t really feel
>>         >> >> comfortable leaving my car parked out front let alone
>>         leave expensive
>>         >> >> tools
>>         >> >> inside. Security for members tools is a high importance
>>         if we want to
>>         >> >> try
>>         >> >> and build a community workshop and expect people to
>>         feel comfortable
>>         >> >> leaving
>>         >> >> their stuff at the space.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Again, this is just off the top of my head and fairly
>>         general.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> EW
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Ps, I only proofread this once, so please forgive any
>>         >> >> errors/misspellings
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> From: Mr. Clif [mailto:clif at eugeneweb.com]
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2014 4:21 PM
>>         >> >> To: Ellery Weber
>>         >> >> Cc: 'board'; 'Committee'
>>         >> >> Subject: Re: [EMS Board] [EMS Committee] Agenda items,
>>         and Wallis walk
>>         >> >> through
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Those are all good talking points but it's up to
>>         everyone to share
>>         >> >> their
>>         >> >> view points on this. What are yours Ellery?
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Clif
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> On 03/04/2014 04:09 PM, Ellery Weber wrote:
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> These are excellent points, Weston – thank you for
>>         bringing them up.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Based on what we want, we can look at up to $1000/mo,
>>         and at least 2000
>>         >> >> sq
>>         >> >> ft - is that correct?
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> EW
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> From: Committee
>>         [mailto:committee-bounces at eugenemakerspace.com] On
>>         >> >> Behalf
>>         >> >> Of Weston Turner
>>         >> >> Sent: Monday, March 3, 2014 11:55 PM
>>         >> >> To: Rick Osgood
>>         >> >> Cc: board; Committee
>>         >> >> Subject: Re: [EMS Committee] [EMS Board] Agenda items,
>>         and Wallis walk
>>         >> >> through
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> I want to clarify what my vision for EMS is and how
>>         that informs the
>>         >> >> decisions I have made that affect the space. I'd like
>>         to also point out
>>         >> >> my
>>         >> >> observations of how our space is used in order to
>>         justify what we have
>>         >> >> and
>>         >> >> have not done as an organization.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> In my mind, the most important thing that EMS provides
>>         to its members
>>         >> >> is a
>>         >> >> community workshop. Therefore the most important thing
>>         I can do is make
>>         >> >> sure
>>         >> >> the shop is well stocked with useful tools, is
>>         organized such that
>>         >> >> those
>>         >> >> tools are readily usable, and is clean so that members
>>         can work on
>>         >> >> their
>>         >> >> projects without having to clean up other member's
>>         messes first.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> To this end, I think we have accomplished two of those
>>         three goals, the
>>         >> >> shop is now clean (although member storage and the
>>         parts area could be
>>         >> >> more
>>         >> >> tidy), but the shop working areas are very clean and
>>         usable. We have a
>>         >> >> wide
>>         >> >> assortment of tools that are in good working order. In
>>         fact, based on a
>>         >> >> maker-shop book that Mark showed me, we are a mature
>>         shop, only lacking
>>         >> >> a
>>         >> >> couple of more advanced tools such as a laser
>>         cutter/engraver and CNC
>>         >> >> machinery. Where I think we have the most room for
>>         improvement is shop
>>         >> >> organization, such as making tools and parts more
>>         easily locatable, and
>>         >> >> the
>>         >> >> organization of space itself so that it is more easily
>>         cleaned and
>>         >> >> moved
>>         >> >> about in. There are many things we can do to improve
>>         usability: place
>>         >> >> large
>>         >> >> tools and equipment, tables, and other difficult to
>>         move things on
>>         >> >> lockable
>>         >> >> casters so they can be easily pushed around by a single
>>         person, create
>>         >> >> a
>>         >> >> parts database so that memeber's can determine what
>>         parts we have and
>>         >> >> where
>>         >> >> they are located, do the same thing for our tools, make
>>         outlines of
>>         >> >> tools
>>         >> >> where they are stored so they can easily be placed back
>>         where the came
>>         >> >> from,
>>         >> >> etc..
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> The other focus of our group is community outreach, and
>>         I maintain that
>>         >> >> if
>>         >> >> the community can come in to our shop on open hack
>>         nights and with the
>>         >> >> assistance of members, use the shop and learn how to
>>         use tools and make
>>         >> >> stuff, then that mission is primarily fulfilled. An
>>         added function is
>>         >> >> for
>>         >> >> EMS to go out into the community and participate in
>>         events for outreach
>>         >> >> and
>>         >> >> to let people know who we are and what we do. By the
>>         way, kudos to Mark
>>         >> >> for
>>         >> >> putting on an excellent panel discussion on
>>         Kickstarter. I learned a
>>         >> >> lot,
>>         >> >> and thought everyone did an excellent job. The event
>>         was well attended,
>>         >> >> and
>>         >> >> I thought people came away with their questions
>>         answered and with good
>>         >> >> insight into how to make Kickstarter work for them.
>>         Thank you to the
>>         >> >> panelists and volunteers who helped put the event on as
>>         well.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Regarding moving to a new space, we should only
>>         consider a particular
>>         >> >> new
>>         >> >> space if it will increase our capacity for making, by
>>         immediately and
>>         >> >> with
>>         >> >> little to no improvement required provide for more
>>         tools (laser cutter,
>>         >> >> welders, plasma cutter, CNC, etc.), motivate more
>>         people to join due to
>>         >> >> having a more functional space, and encourage added
>>         membership and foot
>>         >> >> traffic due to a better location and street presence
>>         (read: a more
>>         >> >> central
>>         >> >> location). We also have to be able to afford the
>>         move-in costs and
>>         >> >> first
>>         >> >> several months of operation at current membership levels.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Regarding the notion that we are going to move into a
>>         space of 3X the
>>         >> >> cost
>>         >> >> and radically change the model of operation of the shop
>>         in order to
>>         >> >> fund it,
>>         >> >> i.e., by teaching classes, I am skeptical that we can
>>         pull this off due
>>         >> >> to
>>         >> >> the following reasons: most members have day jobs that
>>         consume the
>>         >> >> majority
>>         >> >> of their time and energy, I/we would be reluctant to
>>         pour a tremendous
>>         >> >> amount of additional energy into converting EMS from a
>>         community shop
>>         >> >> into a
>>         >> >> business (which is essentially what a non-free school
>>         is) with
>>         >> >> potentially
>>         >> >> very demanding customers (students). I do envision EMS
>>         putting on
>>         >> >> classes,
>>         >> >> but not at the scale at which it would cover the larger
>>         portion of our
>>         >> >> budget. We have thus far not held classes at the shop,
>>         and we need to
>>         >> >> do so
>>         >> >> in order to work out the process of holding them and to
>>         gauge levels of
>>         >> >> participation.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> In light of these reasons, and the fact that the shop
>>         for the majority
>>         >> >> of
>>         >> >> the time goes totally unutilized, I am not compelled to
>>         settle for a
>>         >> >> space
>>         >> >> that does not satisfy the goals mentioned above and
>>         additionally the
>>         >> >> following requirements:
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> - The space shall be at least twice the size of our
>>         current space and
>>         >> >> no
>>         >> >> more than twice the cost. Read: that as less than or
>>         equal to 2X the
>>         >> >> current
>>         >> >> cost and greater than or equal to 2X the space...
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> - The space shall be partitioned roughly equally
>>         between shop and
>>         >> >> office
>>         >> >> space, with the office space not exceeding the size of
>>         the shop. Maybe
>>         >> >> 1/3
>>         >> >> office and 2/3 shop would be the most unequal partition
>>         allowable.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> - The space shall be accessible, i.e, conveniently
>>         located so that it
>>         >> >> is a
>>         >> >> compelling hang out spot and readily used by members
>>         without a long
>>         >> >> commute.
>>         >> >> Read: no less centrally located than we already are.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> - The shop space shall have at least one overhead door.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> - The space shall have utilities in place to make it
>>         immediately
>>         >> >> usable,
>>         >> >> i.e. electrical outlets 120/240V and preferable 3 phase
>>         available.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> - The space shall have a bathroom and a utility sink.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> - The space shall be easily secured in order to protect
>>         member's tools.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> - The space shall permit a flexible lease arrangement,
>>         ideally month to
>>         >> >> month, with 6 months, and a year lease being less
>>         optimal. That way we
>>         >> >> can
>>         >> >> recover from a failure to grow into a larger space
>>         without being
>>         >> >> scarred by
>>         >> >> legal troubles from an inability to meet the lease
>>         agreement.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> I encourage you all to add to, these requirements (or
>>         challenge them),
>>         >> >> and
>>         >> >> for that matter, add to, question, and challenge the
>>         ideas put forward
>>         >> >> in
>>         >> >> this mail in general (as it's just my 2 cents, but
>>         maybe closer to a
>>         >> >> nickel
>>         >> >> or a dime at this length :))
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Regards,
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Weston
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 7:43 PM, Weston Turner
>>         <wstnturner at gmail.com>
>>         >> >> wrote:
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> I'd like to discuss whether we want to have a presence
>>         at these two
>>         >> >> events
>>         >> >> at the UO this Saturday and the Saturday after (thanks
>>         to Mark for
>>         >> >> forwarding these events to Discuss):
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>         >> >> From: Brandy Todd <btodd at uoregon.edu>
>>         >> >> Date: Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 11:04 AM
>>         >> >> Subject: Science Fair & Queen's Ball Call for Presenters!
>>         >> >> To: spicescience at uoregon.edu
>>         >> >> Cc: Ariana Evensen <evensen at uoregon.edu>, UO STEM CORE
>>         >> >> <stemcore at uoregon.edu>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Greetings All,
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> It Science Fair time once again! And once again, we’d
>>         love to have
>>         >> >> your
>>         >> >> group host an activity table at the event. BUT WAIT!
>>         There’s MORE!
>>         >> >> This
>>         >> >> year as part of my SLUG Queen “Rain” I am holding a
>>         fundraiser for
>>         >> >> SPICE and
>>         >> >> we’d love to have volunteers/participants for that as
>>         well. All
>>         >> >> proceeds
>>         >> >> will go to the SPICE program to support girls in
>>         SCIENCE! Details
>>         >> >> below
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Science Fair - March 8th 11am-3pm - Willamette Atrium -
>>         Would your
>>         >> >> group
>>         >> >> like to host an activity table? Would your members like
>>         to volunteer
>>         >> >> to
>>         >> >> help out/judge? Please let us know. This is a super fun
>>         event for all
>>         >> >> ages
>>         >> >> and a great way to showcase the wonderful outreach your
>>         program does.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Slug Queen’s Pi-Pie Gala Ball Extravaganza! - March
>>         15th 7pm-11pm in
>>         >> >> the
>>         >> >> Willamette Atrium. Imaging the Fall Science Open House,
>>         but for
>>         >> >> adults!
>>         >> >> We’re going to have tons of fun science, music dancing
>>         (and no kids ;-)
>>         >> >> !).
>>         >> >> We need volunteers for all aspects of the event and
>>         groups to host
>>         >> >> activities for attendees. We’ve already nailed down
>>         microscope making
>>         >> >> and
>>         >> >> Liquid Nitrogen Ice Cream/Dry Ice Root Beer Floats. Do
>>         you have a fun
>>         >> >> demo
>>         >> >> or activity you’d like to show off for an adult
>>         audience (get as racy
>>         >> >> as you
>>         >> >> like)? This is the event for you. Featuring music by
>>         Accordions
>>         >> >> Anonymous.
>>         >> >> Poster Attached. Please share with your friends and if
>>         you don’t want
>>         >> >> to
>>         >> >> present, then come and have fun as a guest!
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> https://www.facebook.com/events/226564254198673/
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> If we want to participate, we need to call out for
>>         volunteers and
>>         >> >> figure
>>         >> >> out what we want to have at our table. I'd like to see
>>         us there, so
>>         >> >> I'll
>>         >> >> step up to volunteer.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Rick Osgood
>>         <rick at richardosgood.com>
>>         >> >> wrote:
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> First, I like all of the points Weston has called out
>>         in his last email
>>         >> >> in
>>         >> >> the thread. That's the kind of thing I was talking
>>         about. If that was
>>         >> >> decided already and posted somewhere before then I'm
>>         sorry I either
>>         >> >> missed
>>         >> >> it or forgot.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Second, I didn't mean to demean Clif's efforts. I know
>>         he put more
>>         >> >> work
>>         >> >> into finding the new spaces than anyone else likely
>>         did. I do
>>         >> >> appreciate
>>         >> >> that. I am just trying to get us to make sure we know
>>         what we are
>>         >> >> doing
>>         >> >> before putting ourselves in the same situation as before.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Third, I should mention that to begin with I was all
>>         for the "bite the
>>         >> >> bullet" approach with the Wilson space that we missed
>>         out on. Now that
>>         >> >> I
>>         >> >> see where that lead us, I think it would be wise to try
>>         another
>>         >> >> approach
>>         >> >> this time. That's what I'm getting at.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Rick
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 6:42 PM, Kassie
>>         <kassandra_kaplan at yahoo.com>
>>         >> >> wrote:
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> I have to say that while I don't like the situation we
>>         are in and the
>>         >> >> pressure behind it, I believe cliff is trying his best
>>         to do his job
>>         >> >> and he
>>         >> >> has being put in a situation where his work amounts to
>>         nothing because
>>         >> >> of
>>         >> >> our response time. We have lost good spaces because we
>>         could not react
>>         >> >> and
>>         >> >> for Clif that means countless memos and conversation
>>         add to nothing.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> At one point, everyone was driven to move into a new
>>         space and it was I
>>         >> >> that felt "under the gun" to except the need to make
>>         the leap of faith.
>>         >> >> I
>>         >> >> hear people say "move or die" and that when we moved
>>         into our current
>>         >> >> space
>>         >> >> you had to just "hope it would all work out". While I'm
>>         glad we are
>>         >> >> being
>>         >> >> more realistic and metered in our approach, I do take
>>         exception to
>>         >> >> people
>>         >> >> complaining about what they were doing a few months ago.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> I think we need we need to go a step farther then what
>>         mark is
>>         >> >> suggesting.
>>         >> >> I think we need to create a protocol for finding,
>>         assessing, applying,
>>         >> >> and
>>         >> >> renting a new space.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> It would include all our "wants and dreams" but it
>>         should also include
>>         >> >> algorithm that will put us in a space quickly. While,
>>         it's important to
>>         >> >> know
>>         >> >> what we want and can afford, we need to be able to get
>>         it. There is no
>>         >> >> point debating a place if we can't actually get the
>>         place. In fact, I
>>         >> >> suggest we should suspend looking for a new place till
>>         we get this
>>         >> >> protocol
>>         >> >> in place or those looking for spaces are wasting their
>>         time.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Kassie
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Sent from my iPhone
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> On Mar 3, 2014, at 5:41 PM, "Mr. Clif"
>>         <clif at eugeneweb.com> wrote:
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> The reason I'm putting pressure on us is because a few
>>         of us have
>>         >> >> already
>>         >> >> agreed that $1200 would be dooable, and that this place
>>         will be gone
>>         >> >> this
>>         >> >> week. Also we have been skipping space committee
>>         meetings and board
>>         >> >> meetings
>>         >> >> when I had a decent list of agenda items to catch up
>>         on. But without a
>>         >> >> clear
>>         >> >> option in front of us I guess as a group we didn't feel
>>         the need to
>>         >> >> work
>>         >> >> these details out. Now that we have something it's too
>>         late to work
>>         >> >> them
>>         >> >> out. Sigh...
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Clif
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Ok then I guess there is no point in looking at the
>>         Wallis place this
>>         >> >> week.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> On 03/03/2014 04:50 PM, Rick Osgood wrote:
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Well put, Mark.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Mark Danburg-Wyld
>>         >> >> <danburgwyld at gmail.com>
>>         >> >> wrote:
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> I agree with that, Rick - not that I think Clif is
>>         trying to put anyone
>>         >> >> under the gun, but that we need some consensus before
>>         we can try to go
>>         >> >> forward with any particular site. Seems to me that the
>>         best approach is
>>         >> >> to
>>         >> >> recognize we will likely be in a "stretch" position
>>         when we do move to
>>         >> >> a
>>         >> >> larger space, and also to recognize there will be some
>>         trade-offs to
>>         >> >> consider in terms of location and features. But give
>>         that, can we
>>         >> >> strive to
>>         >> >> reach a consensus around something like:
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> 1. no more than $X/month
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> 2. at least Y sq. ft.
>>         >> >> 3. no fewer than three of the following benefits:
>>         >> >> a. multiple bays,
>>         >> >> b. 3 phase,
>>         >> >> c. etc.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> 4. none of the following show-stoppers:
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> a. Springfield address
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> b. etc.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Then, once we have that level of clarity around what we
>>         want, when the
>>         >> >> next right space comes online, we'll be positioned to
>>         jump. If after
>>         >> >> some
>>         >> >> period of time, we find that our requirements do not
>>         overlap with
>>         >> >> reality,
>>         >> >> revisit and adjust, repeat...
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Otherwise, I think, we'll keep ending up with 'this
>>         space looks
>>         >> >> good'/'feels like a rush to decide' kind of debate.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Rick Osgood
>>         <rick at richardosgood.com>
>>         >> >> wrote:
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> I would simply like to see EMS as an organization come
>>         to some
>>         >> >> consensus
>>         >> >> as to what it is willing to accept as "affordable". EMS
>>         needs to
>>         >> >> figure out
>>         >> >> how much money we have and then decide how much risk we
>>         are willing to
>>         >> >> accept by making a commitment over that amount. This is
>>         really about
>>         >> >> two
>>         >> >> things. Affordability and Risk.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Clif, the way you are pushing this makes me feel you
>>         are attempting to
>>         >> >> put
>>         >> >> everyone under the gun and make them feel pressured to
>>         sign a new lease
>>         >> >> hope
>>         >> >> everything magically works out. That might work, but in
>>         my opinion
>>         >> >> it's not
>>         >> >> the way an three year old organization should operate.
>>         It's sloppy and
>>         >> >> unnecessary. I think it's unfair for you to push that
>>         kind of pressure
>>         >> >> on
>>         >> >> every one else. If there are a bunch of members who are
>>         want to take
>>         >> >> this
>>         >> >> approach again then I'll retract my last statement but
>>         I didn't get the
>>         >> >> feeling anyone wanted to go through that again. Why
>>         don't we learn
>>         >> >> from our
>>         >> >> mistakes instead of repeating them?
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Let's say we find a space for $1200/month today. Then
>>         what? We still
>>         >> >> have to decide if we can "afford it" by paying out of
>>         our savings,
>>         >> >> making up
>>         >> >> the difference, and accepting the risk that it might
>>         take us a while to
>>         >> >> actually start breaking even again. How about we decide
>>         what that
>>         >> >> acceptable risk level is now and then approach this
>>         intelligently,
>>         >> >> rather
>>         >> >> than waiting until the last minute again and making
>>         everyone feel
>>         >> >> pressured?
>>         >> >> We tried the "jump in with two feet" approach last time
>>         and it didn't
>>         >> >> work
>>         >> >> because we didn't have a clear definition of what level
>>         of risk we are
>>         >> >> willing to accept. What makes you think the result will
>>         be any
>>         >> >> different
>>         >> >> this time around when we still haven't figured out the
>>         acceptable risk?
>>         >> >> Let's not waste the renter or the realtor's time again.
>>         Let's figure
>>         >> >> out
>>         >> >> what we are comfortable with first, then then when it
>>         comes time to
>>         >> >> pull the
>>         >> >> trigger we won't be able to hesitate on the financial
>>         issues because we
>>         >> >> will
>>         >> >> have already made that decision.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Mr. Clif
>>         <clif at eugeneweb.com> wrote:
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Well ok can we afford anything more than we are paying
>>         now? One answer
>>         >> >> is
>>         >> >> no, it will put us in the red. On the other hand If
>>         everyone that
>>         >> >> pledged
>>         >> >> extra is still good for that then that's another $500.
>>         So its close.
>>         >> >> But
>>         >> >> then we will have utils and other extra stuff so still
>>         no, can't do it.
>>         >> >> You
>>         >> >> could wait for 1500 sq foot space or a 2000 sq ft space
>>         but they will
>>         >> >> be in
>>         >> >> random places that we don't really like etc... Then you
>>         could stay in
>>         >> >> them
>>         >> >> for a year each and slowly work up to bigger spaces. Or
>>         we could just
>>         >> >> go
>>         >> >> for it and save ourselves a couple of moves and the
>>         years flying by.
>>         >> >> Because
>>         >> >> if we wait longer than a few days this space will be
>>         Gone...
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> In summary, all we have to do is wring our hands and
>>         drag our feet and
>>         >> >> the
>>         >> >> spaces will just evaporate right before our very eyes. ;-)
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Clif
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> On 03/03/2014 03:07 PM, Rick Osgood wrote:
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> I think before we start scheduling a walk through and
>>         appointments and
>>         >> >> bugging the realtor, I'd like to see EMS decide on
>>         solid numbers. I
>>         >> >> think
>>         >> >> Clif is right that it's a perceptual problem and
>>         different people think
>>         >> >> that
>>         >> >> different amounts sound acceptable. That's something
>>         that is bound to
>>         >> >> happen as a community but as an single organization we
>>         have to come to
>>         >> >> some
>>         >> >> agreement. I think the board, or perhaps this
>>         committee, should vote
>>         >> >> to
>>         >> >> approve numbers for Rent and Utilities and then we will
>>         only schedule
>>         >> >> appointments for places that we believe meet those
>>         requirements.
>>         >> >> Otherwise
>>         >> >> we are likely to do the exact same thing as last time.
>>         We can tell the
>>         >> >> Realtor straight up to only look at spaces that meet these
>>         >> >> requirements.
>>         >> >> Then she will know that we won't sit on our hands for a
>>         month trying to
>>         >> >> figure out where the money is going to come from.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> I think it's really important that we learn our lesson
>>         from this last
>>         >> >> experience and do it right this time around. $1200 does
>>         sound much
>>         >> >> better
>>         >> >> than $1400 in my opinion but can we actually afford
>>         that? I have no
>>         >> >> idea.
>>         >> >> Does anyone have any idea? Again, I'd like to see some
>>         solid numbers
>>         >> >> coming
>>         >> >> back from the board so we all know exactly where we
>>         draw the line and
>>         >> >> we
>>         >> >> don't sit around trying to make a decision. We make
>>         that decision
>>         >> >> first,
>>         >> >> then we can jump on a space immediately.
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Mr. Clif
>>         <clif at eugeneweb.com> wrote:
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> This is an excellent question Bob,
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> I think part of the (perceptual) problem with the
>>         Wilson space was we
>>         >> >> didn't have the money in
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> _______________________________________________
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Committee mailing list
>>         >> >> Committee at eugenemakerspace.com
>>         >> >> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/committee
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> _______________________________________________
>>         >> >> Board mailing list
>>         >> >> Board at eugenemakerspace.com
>>         >> >>
>>         http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.board
>>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> _______________________________________________
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Board mailing list
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> Board at eugenemakerspace.com
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.board
>>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >> _______________________________________________
>>         >> >> Committee mailing list
>>         >> >> Committee at eugenemakerspace.com
>>         >> >> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/committee
>>         >> >>
>>         >> >
>>         >> >
>>         >> > _______________________________________________
>>         >> > Board mailing list
>>         >> > Board at eugenemakerspace.com
>>         >> >
>>         http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.board
>>
>>         >> >
>>         >>
>>         >>
>>         >>
>>         >> --
>>         >> Bob Miller K<bob>
>>         >> kbob at jogger-egg.com
>>         >
>>         >
>>
>>
>>
>>         -- 
>>         Bob Miller K<bob>
>>         kbob at jogger-egg.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Committee mailing list
>>     Committee at eugenemakerspace.com
>>     http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/committee
>
>

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