[EMS Discuss] [EMS Committee] [EMS Board] Agenda items, and Wallis walk through
dperko at efn.org
Wed Mar 5 16:01:14 PST 2014
I'd certainly be interested in helping financially to make some sort of
CNC milling machine a reality. Although it could become broken through
careless use, I imagine the milling machines are overall less fussy than
On 3/5/2014 3:42 PM, Mr. Clif wrote:
> Very good points, this might come under resource management. We should
> talk more about how to do it.
> On 03/05/2014 03:36 PM, Rick Osgood wrote:
>> I could put a little money toward a CNC milling machine for the space
>> as I would love to have access to one. However we already have two
>> CNC devices that seem to often be in an "unknown" state (3d
>> printers). We also have a lathe/mill but I'm not sure if the mill
>> works or if there is a plan to make it work. Maybe someone else
>> knows more about that.
>> I guess what I'm getting at is, I'd rather not see us spend $1000 on
>> a new tool and have it end up neglected and in an unknown state like
>> the 3d printers. We might want to figure out a way to first ensure
>> that tools stay in proper working order before we go spending money
>> on more tools. Maybe we need a tool/space manager? Or maybe we
>> should have members sign up to "own" certain tools in the shop and
>> it's their job to make sure the tool stays in working order, make
>> sure we are stocked up in tool bits, etc (or get someone else to do
>> it for them if needed).
>> It's possible that the 3d printers are more high maintenance than a
>> cnc milling machine and are therefore a special case. I don't have
>> experience with the mills to know.
>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 3:30 PM, Ben Hallert <ben at hallert.net
>> <mailto:ben at hallert.net>> wrote:
>> A 2D CNC device of some sort could be a big draw. Hypothetically
>> speaking, if a group of members were to each commit to ponying up
>> some cash towards getting something like that for the shop that
>> we could afford as a group, would anyone here be interested in
>> being involved? Figure out anyone who could contribute money or
>> expertise in finding something affordable, whether it's something
>> small like a ShapeOko-class cutter or if it's a chinese 2.5D mill
>> or something, it seems like a feasible idea that could be within
>> I can bring this to the general list, of course, but I wanted to
>> run the basic idea past the board and the committee for an
>> initial smell-test first as one of those people who could
>> probably commit one or two centabucks towards this.
>> - Ben
>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Mr. Clif <clif at eugeneweb.com
>> <mailto:clif at eugeneweb.com>> wrote:
>> Yes the owners son is living there and something would be in
>> the lease agreement that he will forgive us if we are noisy
>> at night once in a while. What it comes down to is the owner
>> has a choice, he can keep his son in the appartment for free,
>> or he can keep his tennet in a large shop space that is
>> making him money. Go figure ;-)
>> more below...
>> On 03/05/2014 02:21 PM, Rick Osgood wrote:
>>> Is this the space that has someone living in an apartment
>>> attached to it? If so, I personally still see that as a
>>> pretty big concern but it sounds like it has a lot of other
>>> great qualities going for it and the apartment thing might
>>> not be a deal breaker depending on the requirements we all
>>> agree on. I still don't understand what the requirements
>>> actually are. Maybe it would be worth voting on each one at
>>> the next committee meeting so we can all have a clear
>>> understanding of what they are.
>>> Clif, It sounds like you are saying that we get a lot of new
>>> people into EMS and many of them leave specifically because
>>> our space is too small or we don't have enough (or the
>>> correct) tools. Is there data to support this?
>> Yes, I have seen these people show up once or twice and then
>> never come back myself. I have talked to other members who
>> have seen the same. Of course you can't ask them why they
>> don't come back because they don't come back.
>>> You made it sound like the only way to grow our membership
>>> is to either spend money on new tools or spend money on a
>>> larger space. I'd like to challenge that notion. Perhaps
>>> the problem is that people don't understand what EMS can do
>>> for them. Maybe the come in, check us out, look around and
>>> say "Cool...*I don't get it*." Maybe we aren't doing a good
>>> enough job making them see EMS the way we see it. If they
>>> walk in and see a shop full of tools and don't get it, they
>>> aren't likely to walk into a bigger shop with even more
>>> tools and suddenly understand.
>> True enough, but why would they drive over to a shop if the
>> weren't looking for a shop? ;-)
>> Ok maybe they are looking for a club house with crafty stuff
>> going on that they can get involved in like maybe the YMCA or
>> the like. Do we want lots of ongoing craft workshops that
>> someone can just drop into, sit down and start soldering?
>> Counter example, Kassie says that if we had an NC mill she
>> could get us several more members right now.
>>> If that is in fact the problem then buying new tools and
>>> upgrading our space is not guaranteed to solve that problem.
>>> It would only solve the problem in these cases:
>>> 1. People don't join because we don't have a specific tool
>>> or set of tools that they want.
>>> 2. People don't join because they think our physical space
>>> is unsuitable for doing whatever it is they want to do.
>>> I would wager that the majority of people who are not
>>> joining do not fit into either of these categories.
>>> Instead, they likely come down without any clear idea of
>>> what they expect us to be or what they hope they can gain
>>> from us. I'm suggesting that if we can do things to help
>>> people understand how EMS can help them we can likely
>>> increase our membership without moving OR spending money on
>>> new tools. The bonus is that if we do end up moving and/or
>>> buying more tools this stuff will still help us. It helps
>>> regardless of our location, tools, resources, etc. So it
>>> seems like a good area to put some focus on. It also
>>> requires little no no risk.
>> Yep we should definitely do this, are you volunteering? :-)
>> What I think most people want is tools they don't have at
>> home. 3D printers are a start though I wish they worked more
>> often. Remember our almost other founding member Shane? Right
>> after we moved into our current space he asked: "Do you have
>> a laser cutter?" the answer was no. Did we ever see him even
>> once show up? No. There is a clue in there somewhere, get out
>> your decoder rings...
>> The reason I don't come down and work on projects more?
>> Because we don't have an NC mill or a laser cutter or a
>> working 3D printer. Simple.
>>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 1:04 PM, Sam Foster
>>> <sam at sneetchworks.com <mailto:sam at sneetchworks.com>> wrote:
>>> Quick notes on the Wallis space:
>>> Like Clif said, with some build out to extend the
>>> interior space (not a negligible cost but not too huge
>>> either - Clif don't forget we would need to run lighting
>>> if we put a ceiling in) this checks pretty much all our
>>> boxes on physical requirements of the building.
>>> The space is a bit tatty, the ceiling and walls could
>>> use some tidying up. But, its cheap and you get what you
>>> pay for. There will be a new roof, there's all the power
>>> we might want. At least 2 bay/sliding doors. Concrete
>>> floors, reasonable light. It even has a hoist! And
>>> there's what used to be a shower and might become one
>>> again with some work.
>>> The area is both exciting and off-putting. Its right in
>>> that part of town where you feel like you could build
>>> *anything*. With open space not far away and plenty of
>>> parking and room to move around, it could be awesome.
>>> But, that comes at a cost. It is further out of town.
>>> Its 20mins drive for me. I've lived in big cities and I
>>> fully recognize this is not so far in the grand scheme
>>> of things, but as you keep going and keep going it
>>> *feels* far away. Drive by traffic would be zero (no
>>> different from our current space). I don't expect it
>>> would be a popular location with the cyclists. It not on
>>> the way to anywhere, so difficult to "pop into".
>>> So, I'm on the fence. If others feel the location is
>>> workable, I will get behind it. If not, I won't shed
>>> tears. But when we talk about needing to compromise and
>>> adjust our criteria to meet reality, this is what it
>>> comes down to. Here is a great space with what sounds
>>> like a reasonable landlord and the prospect of good
>>> lease terms. But not in the part of town we had in mind.
>>> On 05/03/2014 12:43 PM, Mr. Clif wrote:
>>> Hi gang,
>>> Ok Tom, Ben, and Sam, and I saw the space and
>>> enjoyed talking to the Realtor who was very nice
>>> about it.
>>> Some of us were brainstorming about how to carve off
>>> 1000 sqft of additional quite space for classrooms.
>>> It wouldn't be that hard, just one wall and a
>>> ceiling. Which if done right would give us storage
>>> on the top. Then Marie could have large sewing
>>> classes etc...
>>> So lets look at what criteria it meets:
>>> * Over 2000 sqft
>>> * In fact enough space for Ben to build his airplane.
>>> * About $1000 / mo
>>> * About 30 - 40% office space some of which we could
>>> rent out.
>>> * Two bay doors
>>> * 240V and three phase breakers in the panel.
>>> * Three separate breaker panels with room in them.
>>> * On the bus line.
>>> * Has a deli around the corner.
>>> * A place to launch rockets and fly quad copters. Or
>>> go canoing in the winter. ;-)
>>> Ok Obviously it's not perfect but nothing is. Hey
>>> Tom really likes the place next to the Kiva, talk
>>> about location location location! But no roll up
>>> doors, and the last time I was in there it had a
>>> foot of water in the basement. Seriously if you wait
>>> for the perfect place it will be a long long time...
>>> Now Id'e like to respond to Rick's will written
>>> points below. Basically I feel that we don't have
>>> any problems bringing people in. They come by almost
>>> every OHN, and they come during outreach events,
>>> This has been VERY EASY for us to do. The actual
>>> problem is keeping them. They look at what we have
>>> and think Meh.... and walk back out.
>>> Yes cleaning it up helped, but I don't think that's
>>> enough. I said this at yesterdays board meeting, We
>>> have to make a choice between saving our bank
>>> account for moving into a new space or buying some
>>> cool tools that people will want to use so we can
>>> grow our membership. I'm ok with either way but we
>>> can't do both. If we buy tools then we probably
>>> can't move for another year.
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