[EMS Discuss] [EMS Committee] [EMS Board] Agenda items, and Wallis walk through

Eric Harvey swimleft at gmail.com
Thu Mar 6 10:02:13 PST 2014

Swim Lefts labs provides a prototyping space for local engineers, product
designers, and makers to launch hardware centric start ups. There are two
aspects to the space. First, the start up track which offers high quality
equipment and access to discounted legal, financial and patent prosecution
services. Additionally, after six months I will provide a half time onsite
machinist who will work the start up track members. Second, is the hobbyist
track with offers classes and off hours access to the space for those in
the community who want instruction on how to bring their ideas to life.

The target demographic is two sided also. First, the start up track
demographic is engineers who are already working on cool stuff in their
garage and need a space to operate out of, a select group of product
designers from the U of O, and local web development companies that are
excited about getting into the internet of things. The hobbyist track
demographic is anyone who is excited about making stuff.

What tools do I expect Swim Left Labs to have beyond EMS? In the short
term, space, a much broader range of open hours, workbenches for rent,
plenty of storage, a professional level electronics bench, a bridgeport
style mill, and a professional 3d printer.  Down the road, a cnc mill a
laser cutter, a cnc router, and access to professional CAD software.

You are right, EMS may be able to provide a similar tools at a cheaper
price, however I doubt this. The shared workspace model is well established
across the US and $25 a month does not pay for space and working tools.
Club Workshop - $150 a month, TechShop - $175, ADX - $175 for shop access,
$50 for space access, FabLab Tacoma - $125.  Even with these rates these
locations are not money makers.

Eric Harvey
President | Swim Left Products, LLC

On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 9:32 AM, Rick Osgood <rick at eugenemakerspace.com>wrote:

> I'm curious what the mission statement is for SwimLeft Labs.  Who is your
> target demographic and what are you trying to provide to them?  I'd like to
> see how your mission meshes with the mission of EMS.
> Also, What tools do you expect SwimLeft Labs will have that EMS will not
> have?  I'm curious because ultimately I would like to see EMS with higher
> end tools like a laser cutter, cnc milling machine, etc.  Partnering with
> SwimLeft Labs might be a quicker way for us to get access to those things
> in the short term, but ultimately I'd like to see EMS strive to have their
> own higher end tools in order to further our mission.  In that case we
> could potentially be offering competing services at a lower price than
> SwimLeft Labs, while sharing space with SwimLeft Labs which seems like it
> could be a conflict.
> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 9:13 AM, Eric Harvey <swimleft at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thank you for the interest. Here are some more details:
>> The space I am looking at is 870 W 2nd Street in the Wit. The price is
>> reasonable and the landlord is working with me to spruce up the place. It
>> should be ready by the end of the month. The space is primarily a warehouse
>> with two office spaces built inside the warehouse.
>> As for the build out there is some flexibility. Currently, I am planning
>> on putting in a wall to separating the warehouse area into a common area
>> and a Swim Left Labs machine shop area (more about this in a second). Other
>> than that, I am fairly open to different arrangements. As with anything,
>> money speaks and depending on what EMS wants I can be flexible on the
>> arrangement. I do not have a floor plan which makes describing the space
>> more difficult. I will check in with the agent to see if she has one.
>> As for the structure of the deal: I would look at EMS as just the first
>> member of Swim Left Labs. I would charge EMS similar to what the EMS pays
>> now for rent. In return the EMS can have a slightly smaller dedicated space
>> and a larger common space. One other HUGE BENEFIT for EMS is that I will be
>> around running Swim Left Labs. This essentially gives EMS a staff member
>> and allows the EMS space to be open during day and evening hours for no
>> cost to EMS. As a member rent for EMS would simply be a monthly payment to
>> Swim Left Labs with no long term obligations.
>> Now, the pricing structure I am planning on using will not work for EMS
>> because EMS is 30 people. This is why it doesn't makes sense to give EMS
>> members access to the machine shop. My rate for full access to Swim Left
>> Labs is going to be $100 per month for day time access and $50 per month
>> raising to $75 with a cap at 15 members for evening and weekend access.
>> This is inline with the Club Workshops and Tech Shop's that are out there.
>> If I charge EMS a whole ~$500 per month the per person rate would be
>> dismally low and would not come close to paying for the equipment. However,
>> I will sell day passes to the Swim Left Labs machine shop to EMS members
>> who are certified on the equipment. This should give access to the
>> equipment for those project that require a mill, lathe or tig welder.
>> Now, outside of the more expensive machining equipment, there is a need
>> for a dedicated workshop area. I understand this and I think we could
>> figure out a way to have a communal workshop area. It is nice to keep dust,
>> filings, and what not out side of the common areas. Perhaps there could be
>> one workshop and I could just trust EMS members to not use particular
>> pieces of equipment that are associated with Swim Left Labs. I don't know
>> exactly how it will work out and I don't see much reason to worry much
>> about such things now, because particulars are just that and can always be
>> figured out.
>> Eric Harvey
>> President | Swim Left Products, LLC
>> 303-887-5015
>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 6:26 AM, Cord Slatton <cord42 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> In my opinion in a lot of ways our space is either unused or sits empty,
>>> so I would be all for a similar sized space that was used better as the new
>>> maker space location.
>>> Cord
>>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 11:08 PM, Weston Turner <wstnturner at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>> Yea, what he said... Mark, I couldn't have put it better (in terms of
>>>> the questions that you asked, and regarding valuing a "closer to town"
>>>> address).
>>>> Thanks for reaching out to us Eric, I like the sound of what you're
>>>> saying, although being limited to 1400 sq feet with 600 sq feet of that
>>>> shared is suboptimal. But can we have some specifics, i.e., concrete
>>>> figures per Mark's questions?
>>>> Thanks Mark,
>>>> Weston
>>>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 7:23 PM, Mark Danburg-Wyld <
>>>> danburgwyld at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >You folks know your organization and what you want out of it.
>>>>> You're making at least two assumptions there, Eric. :-)
>>>>> Can you spell out your offer in a bit more detail, please? As in,
>>>>> what's the address of the space you've got? Is the space for EMS physically
>>>>> separated from the space for Swim Left? Would EMS members have access to
>>>>> your CNC machine as part of the deal? What kind of financial commitment are
>>>>> you wanting from EMS? That kind of thing...
>>>>> Personally, I would value a closer-to-town address over a lot of other
>>>>> considerations. From the talk at CodeChops last week, it seems clear that
>>>>> most everyone puts a lot of importance on maintaining their independence. I
>>>>> personally think there's a lot of upside to letting go a little bit. And so
>>>>> I look forward to hearing more about your offer.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Mark
>>>>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 4:36 PM, Eric Harvey <swimleft at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>> Good Evening EMS members,
>>>>>> The conversation that just cropped up is exactly why I am working on
>>>>>> Swim Left Labs. Access to cnc equipment wildly increases the capabilities
>>>>>> of a space and such equipment is critical for almost any project with
>>>>>> commercial potential. Also, steel is awesome and working with steel is even
>>>>>> more awesome.
>>>>>> However, I recognize that for people who do not want/need this
>>>>>> equipment they do not want to pay the increased cost of a membership that
>>>>>> reflects such increased capabilities. Providing cnc equipment requires at
>>>>>> least a path to certification on the equipment and on site staff to
>>>>>> supervise general during open shop hours. Additionally, it requires capital.
>>>>>> This is exactly why I have been trying to reach out the EMS. I can
>>>>>> sign on the lease for a 2500 sqft space, provide cnc equipment and staff
>>>>>> the space (me). By partnering, EMS can mitigate almost every risk I have
>>>>>> seen discussed in this lengthy email chain. For me, I can offset my cost of
>>>>>> providing common space. In my mind a partnership would look something like:
>>>>>> Swim Left Labs  : 1100 sqft dedicated
>>>>>> EMS                   : 800  sqft dedicated
>>>>>> Common Space : 600  sqft shared
>>>>>> Notably, Swim Left Labs would be the lessee and EMS would simply be a
>>>>>> member of Swim Left Labs. Swim Left Labs will have more manufacturing
>>>>>> capabilities and a higher price tag for access to such capabilities. Such
>>>>>> an arrangement gives a lot of flexibility to both EMS and Swim Left Labs as
>>>>>> a whole.
>>>>>> My only condition is that I am not interested on wavering on such a
>>>>>> partnership for months. You folks know your organization and what you want
>>>>>> out of it. I know what I want with Swim Left Labs and I am going to pursue
>>>>>> that. However, there is a lot of middle ground and it is a waste to have 2
>>>>>> competing spaces in town. I am going to make myself available this weekend
>>>>>> to meet with anyone and everyone at EMS who is interested in partnering.
>>>>>> Feel free to call me on my cell phone: 303-887-5015.
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Eric Harvey
>>>>>> President | Swim Left Products, LLC
>>>>>> 303-887-5015
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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